Peaking/overload on classic opera/vocal recordings?

Started by ganchan2019, December 14, 2021, 07:08:39 AM

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ganchan2019

I've noticed that while many of the greatest opera recordings stretching way back to the 78 era sound perfectly clear (apart from inevitable sonic limitations, surface noise etc), many others suffer from peaking and overloading on big climaxes (more so than non-vocal recordings, which to me implies faulty mic/singer positioning or monitoring). It seems to happen especially often on the old RCA recordings from the late 50s through the 70s, many of which I assume were supervised by Richard Mohr. But it also plagues such otherwise good-sounding productions as Karajan's 1959 Aida on Decca.

Were there special challenges involved in miking, monitoring, and recording complete operas during the later analog era? The problem seems to have largely disappeared with the advent of the digital era.....

I'm not optimistic that I can EQ out any peaking that's baked into the original masters, especially when it sits in the middle of the frequency response where vocal lie. So I'm willing to live with these artifacts as minor barriers to enjoyment of great performances. I'm just curious about the phenomenon in general.

premont

I have heard the LP version of Karajan's 1959 Aida several times (albeit several years ago), but I don't recall any overloading. Could it be a digital remastering problem?
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Spotted Horses

#2
I recall hearing what seemed like overload in a few Decca Opera recordings (Karajan's Tosca). I suspect it was a side effect of fighting noise. They would suffer some risk of analog overload in order not keep the music far enough above the tape hiss. Some RCA opera releases were recorded by Decca, so this could be related.

Overload of a tube amp and/or an analog tape recorder is much milder than digital overload (resulting in sound clicks and/or a hail of static, depending on the frequency) There is a more urgent need to avoid digital overload, although I have heard it, for instance on one release of Prokofiev orchestral music recorded by Abbado on DG (remaster of an original analog recording).
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

ganchan2019

#3
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 14, 2021, 08:02:54 AM
I have heard the LP version of Karajan's 1959 Aida several times (albeit several years ago), but I don't recall any overloading. Could it be a digital remastering problem?

Actually, I bought the 1999 remastering in the hopes it had tamed some of the trouble, but no. (You might have the subsequent remastering, which I think was based on the 1999 one and might be better?) I mainly hear the overloading in the final moments of Act II. The first CD release was extremely hissy, so at least they fixed that issue....

But it's much more of a problem in many RCA sets such as their 1952 Trovatore, their 1959 Macbeth, and especially the 1969 Trovatore with Domingo and Price.

André

Quote from: ganchan2019 on December 14, 2021, 07:08:39 AM
I've noticed that while many of the greatest opera recordings stretching way back to the 78 era sound perfectly clear (apart from inevitable sonic limitations, surface noise etc), many others suffer from peaking and overloading on big climaxes (more so than non-vocal recordings, which to me implies faulty mic/singer positioning or monitoring). It seems to happen especially often on the old RCA recordings from the late 50s through the 70s, many of which I assume were supervised by Richard Mohr. But it also plagues such otherwise good-sounding productions as Karajan's 1959 Aida on Decca.

Were there special challenges involved in miking, monitoring, and recording complete operas during the later analog era? The problem seems to have largely disappeared with the advent of the digital era.....

I'm not optimistic that I can EQ out any peaking that's baked into the original masters, especially when it sits in the middle of the frequency response where vocal lie. So I'm willing to live with these artifacts as minor barriers to enjoyment of great performances. I'm just curious about the phenomenon in general.

Seems to be your first post !

Well, make yourself at home and hopefully you will be curious about other stuff as well.

We welcome all interested/interesting posters to contribute in the opera threads !  ;D

premont

Quote from: ganchan2019 on December 14, 2021, 11:01:40 AM
Actually, I bought the 1999 remastering in the hopes it had tamed some of the trouble, but no. (You might have the subsequent remastering, which I think was based on the 1999 one and might be better?) I mainly hear the overloading in the final moments of Act II. The first CD release was extremely hissy, so at least they fixed that issue....

I haven't heard the digital rereleases, only the LP version (using TT), but this was some years ago, and my memory may of course elude me, but generally I recall a very good sound in quiet as well as in "noisy" parts.
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Roasted Swan

Quote from: ganchan2019 on December 14, 2021, 11:01:40 AM
Actually, I bought the 1999 remastering in the hopes it had tamed some of the trouble, but no. (You might have the subsequent remastering, which I think was based on the 1999 one and might be better?) I mainly hear the overloading in the final moments of Act II. The first CD release was extremely hissy, so at least they fixed that issue....

But it's much more of a problem in many RCA sets such as their 1952 Trovatore, their 1959 Macbeth, and especially the 1969 Trovatore with Domingo and Price.

Yes it plagues that Mehta/Travatore which othewise has a good claim to be one of the finest ensemble recordings of that work ever.  But then I think back to my old LP collectings days and "only" a little bit of peaking is a joy compared to the pops and scratches of yesteryear!

aukhawk

I think that last sentence sums it up.  Analogue recording was a continual compromise between noise (tape hiss, vinyl surface noise) and distortion (tape saturation, vinyl end-of-side and tracing distortion) and everyone, engineers and listeners alike, was used to it.  Especially before Dolby gained traction in studios in the late '60s, engineers would willingly exploit the 'natural' peak compression characteristic of recording tape to help keep general tape hiss down.
Now, with over 40 years of digitally-recorded sound behind us, and for the last 30 years problems of peak distortion essentially eliminated, our ears are just less tolerant of these distortions.

One problem for a sound engineer, especially I think with singers with big voices, and especially in live or time-constrained situations (eg last 10 minutes of a recording session) is that - no matter how much you rehearse and sound-check, when it's a 'take' the performer just turns it up several notches and all your meters go off the scale.  That's what it means, to be a 'performer'.  With modern technology recording with 24 or 32 bits, this is handled with ease, but in the old days the wise sound engineer would need all sorts of safety nets in place for that one golden take when the artist really goes for it.