Alex Ross: The Rest Is Noise

[Mark G. Simon]

But you know what? I still like the book. So there.

[Mark G. Simon]

What more your claim has been that the Universities since world war two have been the tastemakers, which claims are easily refuted by a look at the careers of post world war two composers...

Most of whom have made their living teaching at universities.

You know I would like for what you say to be true. It is more healthy to have new music out in front of the general public than confined to academia. I rejoice when I see new music commissioned and programmed by professional orchestras. A few successful composers do pretty well with being commissioned and performed. Good for them, I say. Even those successful ones get most of their performances at universities.

It must be nice to be rich and spoiled and shielded from the realities of life.

[Lethevich]

Give us names, instead of confining yourselves to vague generalisations.  Lutoslawski was not an academic.  Penderecki is not an academic.  Boulez is not an academic (ok, he spent a year at Harvard, which he enjoyed.  That's not how he made his living).  Stravinsky, who lived till 1970 and is therefore also a post war composer, was not an academic.  Etc, etc, etc...   The only composer you have named so far is Milton Babbit.  He taught at Princeton.  But Babbit, who is a compendium of influences, does not count for much in the history of music.  Indeed, he is an argument on behalf of those who believe the Schools only promote imitation.

Penderecki has worked in several universities in the United States IIRC, then there is Ferneyhough, Carter*, etc...

Edit: * Who is currently retired, of course.

[greg]

Penderecki has worked in several universities in the United States IIRC, then there is Ferneyhough, Carter*, etc...

Yeah, the guy's been to a zillion universities, getting a zillion different degrees even though he's old with white hair.....

[DavidRoss]

The virtues of Ross's book will be apparent to anyone capable of appreciating them who makes the modest effort required.  Attacking it (and him) because it is not some other sort of book that might have been written by someone else under different circumstances with different interests for a different audience seems symptomatic of mental illness—which broad diagnosis seems confirmed by a pattern of other equally misguided posts of persistently abusive character. 

At times this forum is like the reading room of a public library.  The person sitting across from you browsing Alex Ross's The Rest Is Noise could be a distinguished scholar with an amazing breadth of knowledge and considerable depth in his chosen field.  He could also be a paranoid schizophrenic suffering delusions of grandeur and incapable of functioning in normal society.  He could be both—and sometimes is.

Compassion does not require us to play along with others' delusional fantasies, but it does command restraint.  It's one thing to tease the other guys in the locker room; quite something else to tease the handicapped kids.

[Renfield]

The rest of the slander is standard fare among the mediocrities, who like accusing high intellect people of mental instabilities.  Does any one care to be reminded of what happens when the mediocrities take over political power:  the Soviet Union, where dissident intellectuals were placed in mental asylums.  Sharansky's mind was not destroyed by the drugs that were forced on him.. His mind is that strong.

Intelligent people frequent one another.  They laugh at the will of the mediocrities to ostracize them, as they never had much interest in frequenting said mediocrities.

Thank you.

You've now decisively settled the matter of whether I'd been unfair in my perception of you, and in my reaction according to it.

(From that other thread about Simon Rattle, if you recall.)

Yet please, carry on. I am not presuming my opinion matters to you, nor that it should; but I still wanted to have this on record.

[Renfield]

I believe the following advice applies to Renfield as well.  I doubt he will follow it, however.  Renfield likes to believe he is always right and those who believe they are always right tend not to make time to inform themselves.

I believe I made it clear my comment had nothing to do with the present discussion, nor your views on "The Rest is Noise". If you'd taken the trouble to examine the exact quote of yours I responded to, it had nothing to do with Alex Ross' book, "buddy".

In fact, off-topic as I certainly was, I think it is well within your rights to report me to the moderators for it, if it so disturbs you.


Edit: Incidentally, could you please address my person, when saying something addressed to me? It is rather uncouth not to, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to drop to the level of the plebs.

[uffeviking]

Great idea to take a rest, go to sleep, and maybe wake up filled with love for your fellow music lover and Alex Ross book readers! 

uffeviking 

[Brünnhilde forever]

Tried to add something to the discussion of Alex Ross's The Rest is Noise, but the topic was locked, so I start a new one!

Read in this week's Times Literary Supplement:

The winner of the new Warwick Price for Writing will be announced at the University of Warwick on February 24. The award, which is to be given biennially, prides itself on being interdisciplinary and international, rewarding "an excellent and substantial piece of writing . . . in any genre or form". On the shortlist, . . . The Rest is Noise by Alex Ross...  (my emphasis) . . . The winner will receive £50,000.

That's at today's exchange the nice sum to $72,110 plus change. I hope Alex wins! Don't you? Or haven't you read the book yet? Still on top of the stack of books to read, on the table next to your chair? Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!

[haydnguy]

I am reading it now and really like it a lot. I think, especially for the non-musician it's a good read and for those who don't know but would like to learn more about music in the 20th century. Very accessible. I'm taking my time with it because there is a lot of information in it. 

[DavidRoss]

My boss lent me the book, but I haven't read it yet. After studying Music for 4 years I find it very hard to motivate myself to read about music. 

It's not really about music, George, but rather about the personalities and movements that played significant roles in the history of music in the 20th Century.  A good read, I thought.

[Que]

Tried to add something to the discussion of Alex Ross's The Rest is Noise, but the topic was locked, so I start a new one!

You probably even locked it yourself, Lis.

Anyway, after some pruning I believe it was fit to be re-opened for the public, I merged the two threads.

Q

[SonicMan46]

It's not really about music, George, but rather about the personalities and movements that played significant roles in the history of music in the 20th Century.  A good read, I thought.

David is right - just finished the book myself a month or so ago - really a 'sweeping saga' of the 20th century; yes, about selected composers but their characters, influences, and the impact of history & politics on them in that tumultuous century; the Shosty-Prokofiev-Stalin discussion is a 'chilling' example.   

[Karl Henning]

. . . Composers, in his book, are everyday geniuses, as much a product of their time as their legacy was a product of their Art.  They are firmly stuck within the political and social climate and responded as any of us would have done, albeit with wonderous invention. . . .

One of my sustained points is, that a composer's work needn't be a response to the political and social climate.  Some of us write what we write, because that is the sound we wish to hear, and wish to be heard.

[Karl Henning]

One of my sustained points is, that a composer's work needn't be a response to the political and social climate.  Some of us write what we write, because that is the sound we wish to hear, and wish to be heard.

Maybe that's part of my "breakthrough problem": response to the political and social climate is readily marketable.

I've said it before, and I say it again: Damn the market.

[Parsifal]

Maybe that's part of my "breakthrough problem": response to the political and social climate is readily marketable.

I've said it before, and I say it again: Damn the market.

If, as you seem to assert, you do not care whether anyone is interested in your music or not ("damn the market," and all that), what do you mean by "breakthrough problem."  You like your own music, and that's all you're concerned with, no?

[Karl Henning]

If, as you seem to assert, you do not care whether anyone is interested in your music or not ("damn the market," and all that), what do you mean by "breakthrough problem."

What I mean is, the opportunity to work with more, and a wider geographical range, of musicians; and the oportunity to reach a broader audience.

[Parsifal]

What I mean is, the opportunity to work with more, and a wider geographical range, of musicians; and the oportunity to reach a broader audience.

The second seems to indicate you are concerned with "the market."

[Karl Henning]

The audience, and the market, are not synonymous.

[Karl Henning]

But you aren't really interested in my thoughts, are you? Your purpose is other.