Discovering Johann Nepomuk Hummel

[Gabriel]

I said elaboration & development of form...you know what those words mean right?

Which form do you want to discuss? The use of monothematism in Haydn's sonata form, or Reicha's inclusion of tertiary subjects? Or the canonic interventions in Haydn's instrumental works?

[Gabriel]

None of that thanks.
No need to get pedantic over this you know, 
all you have to do is merely listen to the works to hear the evolution and renewal of form.. its pretty obvious.

I'm not pedantic. You asked if I knew something about "elaboration and development of form", what is contradictory to your actual position of "merely listening".

What I really advice you is precisely to listen to the works of Hummel, Reicha and so many unfairly forgotten masters of that time. I hope that, if this thread continues, it will contribute to stimulate your curiosity. That would be a first step, of which I would be very glad.

And now, back to Hummel!

[JoshLilly]

"so take it easy"




"I doubt its as good though"

I can't imagine listening to a piece I'd never heard before after fixing pre-judgement into my head like that, but whatever floats your boat.

[Gabriel]

Just a few suggestions, for not going away from the subject for too long. Reicha: wind quintets. Cherubini: the 2 Requiem masses, Mass in D minor, overture to Médée. Méhul: the symphonies, overtures (the one for Stratonice is a winner). Hummel: the piano concertos op. 85 and 89, the piano trios. Vorísek: symphony, piano sonata, rhapsodies. Clementi: Gradus ad Parnassum. Spontini: La Vestale.

(This just for starting! )

[mahlertitan]

I think in discovering hHummel, people will discover a composer who is half way between Mozart and Chopin.

[Gabriel]

I think in discovering hHummel, people will discover a composer who is half way between Mozart and Chopin.

I think exactly as you. He's the link between both.

[mahlertitan]

I think exactly as you. He's the link between both.

that being said, i really enjoyed his works, for the same reasons that i enjoyed Mozart and Chopin; plenty of nice melodies to go around and a touch of virtuosity that you will find distinctly Hummel.

[Gurn Blanston]

Can't really agree or disagree about the Mozart - Chopin connection because I haven't really discovered Chopin yet   

But I discovered Hummel long ago and have nearly his complete recorded works. I think 2 things about him: he is a bridge between classical and romantic (he was Mozart's student after all, but his later (post 1805) music is distinctly part of the Age of the Virtuoso), and secondly, some of his lesser known works, like the potpourris and the capriccios are definitely worth exploring. The piano concertos are pretty much the beaten path here, if you get off that, you will find a large body of interesting and well written music.

[mahlertitan]

Can't really agree or disagree about the Mozart - Chopin connection because I haven't really discovered Chopin yet   

i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

[Gurn Blanston]

i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

I suspect you are quite correct. I have a lot of Chopin, I just haven't listened to it more than casually. Seems strange when I think about it that I know Hummel a lot better than I know Chopin...    

[mahlertitan]

I suspect you are quite correct. I have a lot of Chopin, I just haven't listened to it more than casually. Seems strange when I think about it that I know Hummel a lot better than I know Chopin...    

i am not expert of both composers, i listen to their music from time to time, i think it was that radio program by BBC that got me interested about Hummel's music, and taught me a great deal too.

[M forever]

BTW, it's not pronounced like "hummer", the u is a short oo, a little similar to the u like in "pull".

[Gabriel]

i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

"Evidences"...  Try the piano concertos, indeed. You can feel Hummel's shadow over them, even if you can also notice Chopin's distinctive sound.

What do you think about Hummel's string quartets, Gurn?

[zamyrabyrd]

Poor Hummel, pushed aside by the big name composers, and now not a post here for over one year...

Anyways, I just "discovered" the Hummel Piano Preludes, downloaded for a small fee from EveryNote. (The local university library didn't have them, nor did it seem one could get them for free.)

The interest here was comparing them to Chopin's Preludes, and there is surely a lot of correlation between the ultra short miniatures of Hummel (most of them are about 8 bars) and Chopin's harmonies, figurations, chromaticisms, etc.

Many, if not most of them though, are more like sketches without any real development. I also downloaded his b minor concerto to compare with a recording on "Fabri Editions". In short, meaning with my limited knowledge of Hummel's music (although I plan to listen to more), I find so far there are good ideas but not necessarily consistency in developing them. The abovementioned concerto has a rather dull beginning but there are interesting passages later on. This is really not the case with Chopin's piano concertos and I imagine, the reason, Chopin's prevailed.

ZB

[Josquin des Prez]

I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

[karlhenning]

I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin.

No, you don't see it, do you?

[Josquin des Prez]

Ho shut it, you guys are starting to sound like a broken record. Have you actually listened to anything by John Field?

[SonicMan46]

Just checked Gurn's 'old thread' (back to 2004) and the beginning of this newer thread and was amazed that I had added just a couple Hummel CDs in the last few years - guess too many composers to contemplate! 

But, a new addition (likely posted in the 'listening thread' when purchased) is the one below:  Piano Quintets by Hummel, Dussek, & Onslow w/ the Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet; I'm usually not one to 'mix' composers in this fashion, but just an enjoyable recordings overall - excellent Fanfare Review reprinted @ Arkiv Music - 

[zamyrabyrd]

I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

If you have the 24 Preludes by Hummel in front of you, unless Chopin never saw them, the similarities must be purely coincidental. But having just listened to Hummel's Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in B minor, Op. 89, I can't help thinking that the problem lies in being in the cusp of Classic and Romantic.

Likewise, CPE Bach and his contemporaries were breaking out of the Baroque but not sure of where they were going. So their compositions are not the most successful as exemplars of the Classical style. While this concerto is an interesting work, has beautiful moments, especially the charming last movement, it suffers from the four-squareness mindset of the Classical period, but not ready for the form following function of the Romantic period. I also got the same impression from the 8 bar mold of most of Hummel's Preludes.

Chopin's continuous melody, more like extended improvisations for the pianist in his F minor concerto, not only looks forward to the latter part of the 19th century, but also reveals his own tutelage in the spun-out lines of the Baroque, notably the music of Bach.

ZB

[Gabriel]

I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

I see the influence of both over Chopin, and quite clearly in the two piano concertos.

...it suffers from the four-squareness mindset of the Classical period, but not ready for the form following function of the Romantic period. I also got the same impression from the 8 bar mold of most of Hummel's Preludes.

"Suffers" is a quite pejorative expression. The 8 bars were, as it's very well known, a common length for the period; but it was the language of that era. Exceptions? Yes, there are, even among composers of the classical period. And yes, he uses sonata form, concerto form, ternary structures for minuets. After all, he was a classical. How could I judge Rembrandt by the standards of Picasso, or viceversa?

Likewise, CPE Bach and his contemporaries were breaking out of the Baroque but not sure of where they were going. So their compositions are not the most successful as exemplars of the Classical style.

This is oversimplifying. Music doesn't "break" from one style for going to another; it evolves progressively. CPE Bach was as sure of what he was doing as Haydn when he wrote a symphony with 6 movements, as sure as was Mozart while writing the long final scenes for his late operas, as Beethoven when he wrote An die ferne Geliebte. CPE Bach, as "classical", is often closer in style to a "baroque" composer as his father, than to Beethoven, Rejcha or Hummel, who were also "classical".