Bargains...

[MN Dave]

Rebel without .......!

WITH!

[Harry]

WITH!

[springrite]

People who think rebels need causes are wimps. 

[Harry]

People who think rebels need causes are wimps. 

Uhuh, uhuh!

[PerfectWagnerite]

As boring probably as Jaap ter Linden on Brilliant?
Well, whatever, for the people that cannot afford better sets, and still want to hear the symphonies, a cautious approach is needed then!

Jaap ter Linden on Brilliant is actually quite acceptable as a cheap period instrument cut at these works. The Documents set we are talking about is on modern instruments. I still don't like Mozart symphonies on period instruments much. Mozart's works are almost like symphonic incarnations of the opera aria and on period instruments this singing quality doesn't really come through. In any case if I want period instrument Mozart I would probably go with Harnoncourt/Concentus Mus. Wien on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi.

[FideLeo]

I still don't like Mozart symphonies on period instruments much. Mozart's works are almost like symphonic incarnations of the opera aria and on period instruments this singing quality doesn't really come through. In any case if I want period instrument Mozart I would probably go with Harnoncourt/Concentus Mus. Wien on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi.

In other words, you want your Mozart symphonies beefed up.  I agree that ter Linden and his group can use some beef (or at least Bovril). 

[PerfectWagnerite]

In other words, you want your Mozart symphonies beefed up.  I agree that ter Linden and his group can use some beef (or at least Bovril). 

Don't know about beefed up, but modern instruments have a warmth and glow the period instruments lack. In any case Jaap ter Linden's performances sound like if you take a bunch of musicians who used to play with modern instruments and just stick them with a bunch of period instruments. The sound is different but there is nothing revelatory about it. Harnoncourt's is totally different - the accents, and tempo variations, and an incadescent rawness that Jaap ter Linden doesn't remotely resemble.

[Haffner]

Saw this at JPC de, for just 9,95. Recordings are from 1989, and I have virtually no idea about the quality, but its a bargain....

I have this, and at times it's a satisying listen. There are a couple of goofs (I think they are recording, not performance, related) where the woodwinds sound distorted. But terrific for the price.

[Harry]

I have this, and at times it's a satisying listen. There are a couple of goofs (I think they are recording, not performance, related) where the woodwinds sound distorted. But terrific for the price.

One satisfied customer,....good!

[Brian]

One satisfied customer,....good!

If y'all are still talking about the Mozart symphonies set, I have it too. Have only listened to a couple of the performances, though, so I can't really judge (though I wasn't that fond of them).

[Harry]

If y'all are still talking about the Mozart symphonies set, I have it too. Have only listened to a couple of the performances, though, so I can't really judge (though I wasn't that fond of them).

Bollocks, another satisfied customer....well almost!

[FideLeo]

Don't know about beefed up, but modern instruments have a warmth and glow the period instruments lack.

I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems.  The recordings were suddenly transformed.  After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.)   Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth  ) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!

[Harry]

I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems.  The recordings were suddenly transformed.  After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.)   Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth  ) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!

I would be interested to know what kind of equipment you are using, that made the difference, and from whence you came.

[FideLeo]

I would be interested to know what kind of equipment you are using, that made the difference, and from whence you came.

I remember I told you I have a Marentz CD player at home and Stax 3030 for monitoring purposes.  The amp is an  Arcam.  There is presumably a balance when a warming sounding source goes into something relatively neutral if a bit on the cool side in its presentation.  The monitor-type loudspeakers I have are a pair of Castle Isis, which also sounds quite neutral but cannot compare to the Stax for its ability to resolve details.  I have the Castle classic sub as well but achieving an "accurate" balance in a sat-sub system is nearly impossible.  As you see, it really DOESN'T TAKE MUCH to enjoy period instruments as recorded... I suspect it's the listener's preferences that produce the different opinions we have here.

[Harry]

I remember I told you I have a Marentz CD player at home and Stax 3030 for monitoring purposes.  The amp is an  Arcam.  There is presumably a balance when a warming sounding source goes into something relatively neutral if a bit on the cool side in its presentation. 

Well my mind is slightly older than yours, so I cannot by necessity remember all, I am sorry.
The Marantz would give you a open and brilliant basis which the somewhat warmer Arcam amplification would balance.
The Stax is the best headphone I know.
Castle Isis, a speaker not know in Holland, but I remember some favourable reviews in Hifi & News and reviews, as well in Grammophone.
But a English based speaker right?
You might want to know, that although my systems go from the very top, downwards into my different listening areas, decreasing in price, but not in quality, I enjoy music on everyone of those systems.
In one of the systems I have a sub, and it took me aeons to get the balance right, but I have, and it is truly integrated into the framework.
And for the record too, I bought period instruments recordings from the very beginning, and have been doing that ever since.

[FideLeo]

Well my mind is slightly older than yours, so I cannot by necessity remember all, I am sorry.
The Marantz would give you a open and brilliant basis which the somewhat warmer Arcam amplification would balance.
The Stax is the best headphone I know.

Stax is a bargain for those who appreciate its virtues.  Clunky looks are its main drawback until one upgrades to their top-of-the-line model, the SR-007 Omega (now MkII).

[Harry]

Stax is a bargain for those who appreciate its virtues.  Clunky looks are its main drawback until one upgrades to their top-of-the-line model, the SR-007 Omega (now MkII).

In a matter of weeks, I will try again a few models, the Stax will be the first thing.
Since I have been listening to Stax for almost 20 years now, its only logical that I continue with this model.

[FideLeo]

Castle Isis, a speaker not know in Holland, but I remember some favourable reviews in Hifi & News and reviews, as well in Grammophone.
But a English based speaker right?

Yes, Castle is a British maker of loudspeakers, famous for the real wood finish of their speaker cabinets.  (They make cabinets for the more upmarket brand ProAc as well.)  The Isis has been out of production for quite a while and I don't presume everybody knows about it.  Even an image of it is hard to find  

You might want to know, that although my systems go from the very top, downwards into my different listening areas, decreasing in price, but not in quality, I enjoy music on everyone of those systems.
In one of the systems I have a sub, and it took me aeons to get the balance right, but I have, and it is truly integrated into the framework.
And for the record too, I bought period instruments recordings from the very beginning, and have been doing that ever since.

Better systems do yield better resolved details, less coloured timbres and less distorted dynamics, but of course they still don't guarantee enjoyment unless the listener is listening.  I agree that once one has a good sat-sub balance (I still don't think absolute accuracy is attainable in this context) the music simply sounds more solid and one even hears overtones in the mid- and high ranges that one never had before, despite a sub is supposed only to kick in at the very low frequencies!  For those who don't hear the sheen and warmth in period instruments, it could be that the reproduction is lacking in this aspect...provided that the recording itself is not shrill sounding to begin with.

[FideLeo]

In a matter of weeks, I will try again a few models, the Stax will be the first thing.
Since I have been listening to Stax for almost 20 years now, its only logical that I continue with this model.

I expect to hear raves from you...

[FredT]

I've got that Mozart box with Arigoni and the Italian Philharmonic..10 bucks it cost...unexceptional performances, they sound like run thoughs at best. Nothing inspiring, sound ok at best...