Wagner Overtures

[head-case]

Now now, let's not get carried away here. He's pretty good, then again so are lots of contemporary conductors.

Let's not mince words, he sucks.

[BorisG]

[Bogey]

I'd second this one, but the Klemperer set has, to my mind, a broader range of extracts. It is a very nice set, though. As a rule, I find myself enjoying Von Karajan's EMI output at least as much as some of his DGG records.

This would be a definite plus as to where I stand with what is currently on my shelf.

[Sergeant Rock]

Seconded. I own or have owned many of the versions already noted (and a few more), and would urge listening to the Klemperer (EMI) for its structural power and Stokowski (some on Decca, some on RCA, some on Everest) for the emotional/expressive power, since you may respond more positively to one of these approaches. But the Szell never fails to astonish in sheer control, shaping, precision and orchestral execution. Occasionally, it helps to be reminded just how well Szell did in Wagner, since he's not the first guy I tend to think of in that repertoire.

Dirk and I think alike...exactly alike: Szell, Klemperer, Stokowski. One thing, Bogey, about Szell's Ride of the Valkyries: he adds to Wagner's arrangement additional vocal cues at the climax (gives the ho-jo-to-hos to the trumpet) and makes this by far the most exciting version I've ever heard outside the full opera....with all those dreadfully noisy girls 

Sarge

[Bogey]

Dirk and I think alike...exactly alike: Szell, Klemperer, Stokowski. One thing, Bogey, about Szell's Ride of the Valkyries: he adds to Wagner's arrangement additional vocal cues at the climax (gives the ho-jo-to-hos to the trumpet) and makes this by far the most exciting version I've ever heard outside the full opera....with all those dreadfully noisy girls 

Sarge

I remember asking you about a Ring Cycle at one point, but after a dvd sampling I thought it better to take baby-steps instead of plunging into a volcano. 

[Sergeant Rock]

I remember asking you about a Ring Cycle at one point, but after a dvd sampling I thought it better to take baby-steps instead of plunging into a volcano. 

Marvin might not agree but I think baby steps are best. Most of us came to love Wagner first through the overtures, preludes and orchestral bleeding chunks. The music dramas can be very daunting at first especially if you aren't an opera fan already.

Sarge

[M forever]

Now now, let's not get carried away here. He's pretty good, then again so are lots of contemporary conductors.

That's actually a completely different discussion in itself, but no matter how good a Wagner conductor or a conductor in general is, this album with the Philadelphia Orchestra neither shows him at his best nor is it particularly representative of his Wagner conducting (or conducting in general). Like his Schumann symphonies, this comes from a phase when he apparently hadn't quite figured out yet exactly what he was aiming for, so while it is well played and reasonably well recorded (rather dry and a little too bright though), it is not really musically distinctive in any way. Good work, but nothing that special and definitely not a good representation of how his orchestral style has developed.

[marvinbrown]

Marvin might not agree but I think baby steps are best. Most of us came to love Wagner first through the overtures, preludes and orchestral bleeding chunks. The music dramas can be very daunting at first especially if you aren't an opera fan already.

Sarge

  With Wagner I took the "Kamikaze" sink or swim approach (bought the whole music dramas and dove right in without a life jacket I might add)  and ended up being a diehard Wagnerian- ok on further examination of my experiences I will humbly admit that I sank the first time around with Tristan und Isolde. It is really ironic how that eventually became my favorite opera in the entire repertoire.  Perhaps it is best to take "baby steps" especially for a beginner with Wagner.  I believe Solitary Wanderer took a very reasonable approach and moved successfully in a logical "baby step" progression into Wagner's music dramas.  I am not known to be "reasonable"  !


  marvin

[Sergeant Rock]

With Wagner I took the "Kamikaze" sink or swim approach...

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Brown 

Sarge

[PSmith08]

  With Wagner I took the "Kamikaze" sink or swim approach (bought the whole music dramas and dove right in without a life jacket I might add)  and ended up being a diehard Wagnerian- ok on further examination of my experiences I will humbly admit that I sank the first time around with Tristan und Isolde. It is really ironic how that eventually became my favorite opera in the entire repertoire.  Perhaps it is best to take "baby steps" especially for a beginner with Wagner.  I believe Solitary Wanderer took a very reasonable approach and moved successfully in a logical "baby step" progression into Wagner's music dramas.  I am not known to be "reasonable"  !


  marvin

Yes, but there are exceptions to every rule, and I have always felt that the sweep and arc of Wagner's career should be seen for what it is, as opposed to compressed and dropped wholesale into one's musical experiences. Indeed, I believe that working through the Bayreuth canon seriatim, with plenty of time to absorb and digest the individual works, is the only acceptable and reasonable way to approach Wagner. Otherwise, sensory overload kicks in and folks end up overwhelmed, sitting on their floor, and babbling about Gesamtkunstwerk.

[DarkAngel]

This thread has cost me money.........decided to add a couple more Wagner orchestral CDs to the collection.

Karajan/EMI GROTC
Stokowski/RCA 2CD set

I have the 2CD DG Double set with Karajan/Bohm/Kubelik/Jochum and it is my favorite collection currently, although limited to overtures and preludes.



After more research I think I need the Karajan EMI CD also to supplement that.
The Stokowski/RCA set seems to expand on the offferings from the 1CD Decca set mentioned earlier here and is cheap used.

Agree with praise for the Klemperer/EMI GROTC 2CD set, and the short Szell/Sony collection, both very good.

The Solti/Decca 2CD set has very exciting CD-1 which includes the overtures and a prelude

[marvinbrown]

Yes, but there are exceptions to every rule, and I have always felt that the sweep and arc of Wagner's career should be seen for what it is, as opposed to compressed and dropped wholesale into one's musical experiences. Indeed, I believe that working through the Bayreuth canon seriatim, with plenty of time to absorb and digest the individual works, is the only acceptable and reasonable way to approach Wagner. Otherwise, sensory overload kicks in and folks end up overwhelmed, sitting on their floor, and babbling about Gesamtkunstwerk.

  Like I said PSmith08 I was not reasonable in my approach.  But that was years ago.  I have spent years getting to know Wagner's music dramas- whatever approach is used repeated listening is necessary to appreciate Wagner's muisc dramas. 

  marvin

[Bonehelm]

This is quite nice, too, and among the better recorded Karajan/BP albums from that period (just like the Bruckner 4 and 7 on EMI). It gives you a fairly good idea of what they sounded like. Of course, the performances are rather leaning towards the "grandiose". But I guess that's what a lot of people look for in Wagner performances.

Grandiose might be what a lot of Wagner listeners are after. But if that is the case, then I recommend the Klemperer over HvK (This is coming from a die hard HvK fan) because Klemperer takes broader tempi and thus it sounds more majestic.

[Varg]

Klemperer, Stokowski and Szell are in a league of their own. I cant suggest you only one of them; get the recordings of all three.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/9197929

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7758823

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6208215

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/9704181 (A nice addition)

By the way, did anybody else heard the last one? What do you think of those arrangements? I enjoy the Parsifal prelude a great deal!

[M forever]

PERFECT orchestral discipline and playing. Dresden has a long history relating to Wagner, and though i never believed in the hype of that man named Sinopoli, this cd changed how i looked at music forever, in a positive way. You will never listen to orchestras the same way ever again. I promise, or, i hope.


Howard

Not Wagner, but closely related in nature is this CD which is on the same very high level - the string playing in the "Freischütz" alone is breathtaking, one of those instances where you hear something and think that just can't be true. But that's what happens sometimes, especially with this orchestra.



This CD is also very nice. Wakasugi's direction may not be quite as interesting and insightful as Sinopoli's, but it is still very competent and the playing is very stylish. Plus the sound is very good, very "natural".

[val]

To me, in these overtures and Preludes, Klemperer is the first choice.

But in same works, Furtwängler or Knappertsbusch seem also very good, in special in the Preludes of Tristan and Parsifal.

[jwinter]

For me, Szell's Wagner reigns supreme -- if I were shipping off to the hoary old desert island and had to pick my 10 CDs, a selection of Szell's Wagner would be one of them.  Szell's Tannhauser Overture, put simply, is the most thrilling orchestral recording I've ever heard.  I also enjoy Klemperer and Stokowski, but for me there's no comparison.

If I had to pick a 2nd Wagner set, it would be this one: