Brief English question

Started by Sean, April 23, 2008, 08:54:11 PM

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Sean

This came up as a matter of contention this week in English classes- any thoughts on whether is or are should be used?

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and is theirs to use.

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and are theirs to use.

cx

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/e.html

Each: A singular noun, which requires a singular verb. Do not write "Each of the chapters have a title"; use "Each of the chapters has a title" or (better) "Each chapter has a title."

Topaz

Quote from: Sean on April 23, 2008, 08:54:11 PM
This came up as a matter of contention this week in English classes- any thoughts on whether is or are should be used?

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and is theirs to use.

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and are theirs to use.


As CS states, the answer is clearly (i) as the subject of the sentence "each" is singular and hence the verb "is" must also be singular.  What's the problem?

Sean

Well when I wrote the sentence I used are because we're talking about the drawers of the desks, and both of these are plural; it seems that what's introduced first is what should be kept in mind...

Florestan

Quote from: Sean on April 23, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
Well when I wrote the sentence I used are because we're talking about the drawers of the desks, and both of these are plural; it seems that what's introduced first is what should be kept in mind...

What should be kept in mind are the grammar rules. We're talking not about "the drawers of the desk" (plural) but about "each of them" (singular).
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Florestan on April 23, 2008, 10:50:28 PM
What should be kept in mind are the grammar rules. We're talking not about "the drawers of the desk" (plural) but about "each of them" (singular).

Correct.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Topaz

Quote from: Sean on April 23, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
Well when I wrote the sentence I used are because we're talking about the drawers of the desks, and both of these are plural; it seems that what's introduced first is what should be kept in mind...

That's not right.  You are talking about each one of the drawers.  The word "each" implies singular.  This aspect of English used to be taught under the subject of "concord", i.e. consistency between subject and predicate in the sentence.  We had a tough teacher who drummed this basic stuff into us by about the age of 12.  Part of the same English Language eduction involved learning the distinction between main and subordinate clauses, and how to recognise noun, adjectival and adverbial clauses of reason, purpose etc. If any pupil wrote a sentence containing a split infinitive, or contained an apostophe in the wrong place, they got clipped around the ear.  You learn that way pretty fast. God knows what they teach kids these days. 

Florestan

Quote from: Topaz on April 23, 2008, 10:55:05 PM
We had a tough teacher who drummed this basic stuff into us by about the age of 12.  Part of the same English Language eduction involved learning the distinction between main and subordinate clauses, and how to recognise noun, adjectival and adverbial clauses of reason, purpose etc. If any pupil wrote a sentence containing a split infinitive, or contained an apostophe in the wrong place, they got clipped around the ear.  You learn that way pretty fast.

Ah, but you see, you have been indoctrinated by a typical representative of the British class-system teaching methods.  ;D :D
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

Sean

Quote from: Topaz on April 23, 2008, 10:55:05 PM
That's not right.  You are talking about each one of the drawers.  The word "each" implies singular.  This aspect of English used to be taught under the subject of "concord", i.e. consistency between subject and predicate in the sentence.  We had a tough teacher who drummed this basic stuff into us by about the age of 12.  Part of the same English Language eduction involved learning the distinction between main and subordinate clauses, and how to recognise noun, adjectival and adverbial clauses of reason, purpose etc. If any pupil wrote a sentence containing a split infinitive, or contained an apostophe in the wrong place, they got clipped around the ear.  You learn that way pretty fast. God knows what they teach kids these days. 

Wow.

However, when I wrote Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and are theirs to use I was thinking that each desk had a set of draws not just one, and that Each just refers to each desk, not its drawers; the word drawers has to be used either way, and if it's plural for each desk it supports the use of are??

Florestan

Quote from: Sean on April 24, 2008, 12:06:52 AM
when I wrote Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and are theirs to use I was thinking that each desk had a set of draws not just one, and that Each just refers to each desk, not its drawers;

This is completely illogical. The way you formulated that phrase, each refers clearly, unambiguously and directly to drawers.

I'll try to reformulate the phrase for you:

The drawers of each desk in the room can be locked by the owners and are theirs to use.

[I spotted another error in the original phrase: you use "the owner" (singular) and then "are theirs" (plural)].
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

Sean

#10
Well I didn't want to say The drawers of each desk because it was part of a test for correct apostrophe use. But Each of the desks' drawers can still be used, just that it's simply not clear whether its Each refers to each desk (singular) or each of the several drawers in each desk (plural). Ie drawers, as I say, can in that sentence be either the single drawer of many desks or the many drawers of each of many desks. And thus are is okay. So there.

And Theirs is subject to epicene singular usage as well as denoting plural possession.

Florestan

Quote from: Sean on April 24, 2008, 12:43:12 AM
Each of the desks' drawers can still be used, just that it's simply not clear whether its Each refers to each desk (singular) or each of the several drawers in each desk (plural).

Once again: it's as clear as daylight that each refers to the drawers and I'm surprised you can't see it.


"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

Topaz

#12
Quote from: Sean on April 24, 2008, 12:06:52 AM
Wow.

However, when I wrote Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and are theirs to use I was thinking that each desk had a set of draws not just one, and that Each just refers to each desk, not its drawers; the word drawers has to be used either way, and if it's plural for each desk it supports the use of are??


Consider your first sentence:

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and is theirs to use.

This is a very efficient way of saying:

1.  In the room there are several desks.

2.  Each desk has at least one drawer, possibly several.

3.  Implicitly, each owner may possibly be allocated one or more drawers.

4.  Each drawer can be locked by its owner.



The question is "what can locked"?  From the above it's clear that what can be locked - i.e. the subject of the sentence - is "each drawer", not  desks, or drawers (pl).  Thus, the correct conjugation of the verb is singular, and hence "is" is correct, not "are".

Florestan

Quote from: Topaz on April 24, 2008, 01:09:46 AM

Consider your first sentence:

Each of the desks' drawers in the room can be locked by the owner and is theirs to use.

This is a very efficient way of saying:

1.  In the room there are several desks.

2.  Each desk has at least one drawer, possibly several.

3.  Implicitly, each owner may possibly be allocated one or more drawers.

4.  Each drawer can be locked by its owner.



The question is "what can locked"?  From the above it's clear that what can be locked - i.e. the subject of the sentence - is "each drawer", not  desks, or drawers (pl).  Thus, the correct conjugation of the verb is singular, and hence "is" is correct, not "are".

Your English teacher would be proud of you!
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

Florestan

#14
You see, Sean, this is why we need the good, old, class attendance compulsory, learning oriented teaching style: to get everybody think, speak and write correctly.

"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

ChamberNut

Each of the cats can has cheeseburgers

or

Each of the cats can have cheeseburgers


(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Topaz on April 24, 2008, 01:09:46 AM
The question is "what can locked"?  From the above it's clear that what can be locked - i.e. the subject of the sentence - is "each drawer", not  desks, or drawers (pl).  Thus, the correct conjugation of the verb is singular, and hence "is" is correct, not "are".

I would simply say "each" is the subject, and therefore requires a singular verb. Ignore "of the desks' drawers" for the moment; that is simply a prepositional phrase that does not affect the overall nature of the sentence as singular. And ignore the compound predicate, which can also confuse the issue (especially as the predicates are not parallel in structure) What you're left with is:

Each is theirs [his or hers] to use.

Therefore in reply to ChamberNut, "Each of the cats can have cheeseburgers" is correct, but so would be: "Each of the cats is a cheeseburger nut."

As for "of the desks' drawers," if this is a lesson on the apostrophe, many people prefer not to use apostrophes with inaminate objects.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."


(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Florestan on April 24, 2008, 12:19:35 AM
This is completely illogical. The way you formulated that phrase, each refers clearly, unambiguously and directly to drawers.

I'll try to reformulate the phrase for you:

The drawers of each desk in the room can be locked by the owners and are theirs to use.

But in doing so, you've made the sentence plural, where it was originally singular.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Florestan

Quote from: Sforzando on April 24, 2008, 04:26:57 AM
But in doing so, you've made the sentence plural, where it was originally singular.

Exactly. Sean wants to use "are" instead of "is". I just showed him how.
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy