Indian Music?

[Daedalus]

Greetings all,

As I am currently studying Indian history, I have become extremely interested in the wider culture of the subcontinent.

I am deeply curious about Indian music so I thought I would write to see if anyone was knowledgable in this area. I have heard a little but I rather suspect that what I have heard has been modernised and, perhaps in some cases, Westernised.
Obviously, there are Indian 'classical' music traditions and I am curious to find out more. Can anyone recommend a good starting point?

Any books you can recommend about the subject would be appreciated as well, as I do enjoy reading around a new subject before jumping in and exploring.

D.

[Shrunk]

This looks good:

http://www.khazana.com/et/music/INMURES.asp?mscsstcid=&mscssid=7N1W4HC5TS6F9NK5PM0UTM364DV32G08

[Daedalus]

This looks good:

http://www.khazana.com/et/music/INMURES.asp?mscsstcid=&mscssid=7N1W4HC5TS6F9NK5PM0UTM364DV32G08

How excellent! 

Yes, this does look like a very good website.
I have bookmarked it for when I have more time to explore it.

Thank you for your reply.

D.

[Harry]

Last year around October I think I bought a large amount of Indian music, traditional, and some contemporary, from different sites all over the world, but its still in the box, never unpacked that one, simply slipped my mind!
One of these days after easter I will unpack them and report.
Promised.

[Daedalus]

Last year around October I think I bought a large amount of Indian music, traditional, and some contemporary, from different sites all over the world, but its still in the box, never unpacked that one, simply slipped my mind!
One of these days after easter I will unpack them and report.
Promised.

Harry, can you tell us about some of the music you have bought if at all possible?

I would be ever so grateful if you could PM me with some information when you get round to listening to these CDs. I would be curious to know your opinions.

D.

[Harry]

Harry, can you tell us about some of the music you have bought if at all possible?

I would be ever so grateful if you could PM me with some information when you get round to listening to these CDs. I would be curious to know your opinions.

D.

Well I posted some of it in the purchase thread, so if you search a little you may find it.
I am now in the middle of all the obligations concerning easter in our church, but after that I will try to find this box with the Indian music in it.
And of course I will PM after listening to them, although knowing me, that could take some time....

[Daedalus]

Not to worry Harry - I am sure you have plenty of other things to listen to! 

Thank you for your reply.

D.

[bwv 1080]

There are two main traditions Northern or Hindustani and Southern or Carnatic.  Sitars and Tablas and all the other more familiar images of Indian music are from the Hindustani tradition.  Hindustani music dates back from the Mughal empire and is a fusion of Persian and Middle Eastern traditions with native Indian ones.  The main form is the Raga, which as far as I can tell, only signifies a unique combination of mode and rhythmic pattern (tal).  It is a 4-"movement" form with a slow intro (alap),  Jod where the tabla enters and the progressively faster Gat &Teentaal.  The main features are that the music is monodic and modal, with a drone sounding throughout.  This allows the performer to focus on intonation - all indian instruments have flexible pitch - which is what makes the music unique relative to Western traditions.


Players worth checking out:

Sarod (lute)
Amjad Ali Khan
Ali Akbar Khan

Santur
Pandit Shivkumar Sharma

Sitar
Shahid Parvez Khan
Ravi Shankar

Guitar (altered)
Vishwa Mohan Bhaat

Tabla
Alla Rahka
Zakir Hussain

I am less familiar with Carnatic music but here is a good sample disc I have:

[Harry]

There are two main traditions Northern or Hindustani and Southern or Carnatic.  Sitars and Tablas and all the other more familiar images of Indian music are from the Hindustani tradition.  Hindustani music dates back from the Mughal empire and is a fusion of Persian and Middle Eastern traditions with native Indian ones.  The main form is the Raga, which as far as I can tell, only signifies a unique combination of mode and rhythmic pattern (tal).  It is a 4-"movement" form with a slow intro (alap),  Jod where the tabla enters and the progressively faster Gat &Teentaal.  The main features are that the music is monodic and modal, with a drone sounding throughout.  This allows the performer to focus on intonation - all indian instruments have flexible pitch - which is what makes the music unique relative to Western traditions.


Players worth checking out:

Sarod (lute)
Amjad Ali Khan
Ali Akbar Khan

Santur
Pandit Shivkumar Sharma

Sitar
Shahid Parvez Khan
Ravi Shankar

Guitar (altered)
Vishwa Mohan Bhaat

Table
Alla Rahka
Zakir Hussain

I am less familiar with Carnatic music but here is a good sample disc I have:

I learned a bit this morning.
Thanks.

[Daedalus]

I learned a bit this morning.
Thanks.

Yes, me too - an excellent post. 

[bwv 1080]

I have had uniformly good results with the Maestro's Choice series (I download them from the Zune site)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_m/102-0335251-7927301?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=maestro%27s+choice

They seem to cover the top players and range of instruments

[E d o]

I've been listening to alot of Nikhil Banerjee and Ali Akbar Khan as of late. Both are highly recommended.

[bwv 1080]

One glaring omision on my earlier list is the violinist L. Subramaniam.  A great place to start if you want a familiar instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_xzJdo2o55w

[bwv 1080]

Been meaning to come back here and correct what I wrote earlier about ragas, which was more or less totally wrong

There is no exact parallel in Western music for the raga Hindustani (North Indian) music.  The basic element of a raga is a particular scale (thaat), of which there are 10 in wide usage:

Bilawal (=Ionian mode): S R G m P D N S'
Khamaj (=Mixolydian mode): S R G m P D n S'
Kafi (=Dorian mode): S R g m P D n S'
Asavari (=Aeolian mode): S R g m P d n S'
Bhairavi (=Phrygian mode): S r g m P d n S'
Bhairav: S r G m P d N S'
Kalyan (=Lydian mode): S R G M P D N S'
Marwa: S r G M P D N S'
Poorvi: S r G M P d N S'
Todi: S r g M P d N S'

The letters are the Indian version of solfege - Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni Sa with lower case refering to flattened notes

But ragas are not just scales - they specify characteristic scale movements (arohana /avarohana for the ascending / descending patterns) and the primary and secondary notes of the scale which are emphasized (vadi and samavadi).  These are not necessarily the tonic or 5th.  The choice of tala (essentially the meter) is at the discretion of the performer.



For example Raga Yaman is in Kalyan (Lydian) (actually Yaman and Kalyan are the interchangable names for the same thing).  The vadi is Ga (3rd) and the samvadi is Ni (7th), so you hear alot of these intervals against the drone.

This is the ascending form (arohana)


and the descending form (avarohana)


Here is a video explanation of the raga:

http://www.youtube.com/v/cENz3lPRcPU

and a vocal performance

http://www.youtube.com/v/a24p1kBjrZ0

[Opus106]

From what I've noticed, people from the West seem to know more about the North India classical tradition, which I think is primarily due to Ravi Shankar's collaboration with George Harrison and other musicians from the West. I could be wrong, though.

Here's a site that focusses on the South Indian classical 'music (and dance) scene'.
http://kutcheribuzz.com/ - but it's not exactly an educational resource. (Kutcheri refers to a Carnatic music concert)

Carnatic musicians do spend a lot of time touring the states and Europe. And more recently, the celebration of the music of Thyagaraja has become an annual affair across many cities in the U.S. (These being a copy, so to speak, of the traditional festival held in India, at Thiruvaiyaru.) The site listed above lists quite a few, and the Wikipedia article also links to the official webpages of some of the more noted festivals.

I must also mention, since this thread is about Indian music, that virtually every state/region has a music and dance tradition of its own, classical and folk, and each having a charm of its own.

[bwv 1080]

For anyone interested in Hindustani music, I would highly recommend this 4-CD set published by Nimbus:



There are short (3-5 minute) renditions of 74 ragas divided among 4 performers - Hariprasad Chaurasia (flute) / Buddhadev Das Gupta (sarod) / Shruti Sadolikar Katkar (voice - female)  / Vidyadhar Vyas (voice - male)

In addition there is a 184 page book with detailed analysis of each raga, a general overview of Indian music and a collection of ragamala plates (medieval paintings typifying the mood of a raga)

[c#minor]

Indian Classical Theory is absolutely fascinating. Is there any books on Indian Theory that would be the equivalent of a Western Harmony book? I know Indian music is passed down orally but I would think such a book has to exist.

[bwv 1080]

Indian Classical Theory is absolutely fascinating. Is there any books on Indian Theory that would be the equivalent of a Western Harmony book? I know Indian music is passed down orally but I would think such a book has to exist.

The Raga Guide book above is the best place to start

There is a long history of written Indian theory with competing schools and systems.   A form of notation exists that is a solfege-type spelling  - Sa - Re - Ga - Ma - Pa - Dha - Ni - Sa


there is additional notation as to whether the scale tones are flattened or sharpened as well as some symbols for different types of ornaments.

[arkiv]

There is also classical music from Punjab (sikh religion), and folk, devotional and semiclassical music from the subcontinent. There are 140 millions of muslims in India.

Christian singer Yesudas in Ghazal music:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Ovhrc9WAN0k

Indian qawali (muslim):
http://www.youtube.com/v/lYj8xcws16k

Prayer to deity Hanuman (hinduist):
http://www.youtube.com/v/b6Z1fGTEAqQ

Urumi melam (hinduist):
http://www.youtube.com/v/8yFksxuKA5M

Chande drumming from Kerala:
http://www.youtube.com/v/1ToRPXfZaQo

[Josquin des Prez]

Indian music is still terra incognita for me, but i actually like those two guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y03esqjjnZw