The Best and Cheapest Beethoven's Ninth

Started by MN Dave, April 24, 2008, 05:35:28 AM

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M forever

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 04, 2008, 05:00:30 PM
Me too. Simple question, understandable answer. BTW, your explanation jibes up precisely with what I thought you meant. Actually, that reviewer seemed far more concerned with the sound reproduction than the performance. Performance is ALWAYS more important. Outstanding sound is a bonus. :)

Thanks again,
8)

The "problem" with the sound is that it was recorded live in the Semperoper, so the sound is drier, a little more "muffled" and also a little "flatter'' than the bright, reverberant, deeply resonant sound typically heard on recordings made in the Lukaskirche. But it helps make the sound "compact" and defined and it's really not too dry.

While you are ordering this, get this, too:



This is phenomenally good. I think it is one of the best CDs I have ever heard. I won't even try to describe just how good it is because I know I can't. Sinopoli's approach here is basically the same as with Beethoven, straightforward, no-nonsense, "big" and expressive but to-the-point and played with the kind of refined and at the same time robust tone only the SD can produce in that quality, and very "idiomatically", in a singing way. But they don't hold back at all. The brass can be very raspy in the right places. This is my favorite recording of the Great C Major Symphony, by far. You can also hear the close links between Schubert and Bruckner here more clearly than in many other interpretations.
Recorded "in studio" in the Lukaskirche, BTW, and the sound is outstanding.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: M forever on May 04, 2008, 05:21:34 PM
The "problem" with the sound is that it was recorded live in the Semperoper, so the sound is drier, a little more "muffled" and also a little "flatter'' than the bright, reverberant, deeply resonant sound typically heard on recordings made in the Lukaskirche. But it helps make the sound "compact" and defined and it's really not too dry.

While you are ordering this, get this, too:



This is phenomenally good. I think it is one of the best CDs I have ever heard. I won't even try to describe just how good it is because I know I can't. Sinopoli's approach here is basically the same as with Beethoven, straightforward, no-nonsense, "big" and expressive but to-the-point and played with the kind of refined and at the same time robust tone only the SD can produce in that quality, and very "idiomatically", in a singing way. But they don't hold back at all. The brass can be very raspy in the right places. This is my favorite recording of the Great C Major Symphony, by far. You can also hear the close links between Schubert and Bruckner here more clearly than in many other interpretations.
Recorded "in studio" in the Lukaskirche, BTW, and the sound is outstanding.

Ah, I was wondering if that might not be the case.

I am trying to introduce myself to "new to me" conductors, and Sinopoli just caught my fancy, thanks in part to you and Sarge having mentioned him many times. So the Schubert will certainly go on my list also, as it seems it is a great representation of his work, as well as being among the top of my favorite music. I know I must have mentioned this before, but chamber music and solo keyboard have always been my favorite genres, I have a long way to go with orchestral music before I am ready to play "Mystery Orchestra". :D

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Piano Concertos Nos 1 & 3 - Norrköping SO / Parrott  Brautigam - Op 037 Concerto #3 in c for Pianoforte 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bunny




I hope everyone here is aware that the album can be downloaded from DG at 320 kbps MP3 for $10.99!  That is considerably cheaper than the price at Arkivmusic, and is also competitive with the price at Amazon. 

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 07:25:27 AM



I hope everyone here is aware that the album can be downloaded from DG at 320 kbps MP3 for $10.99!  That is considerably cheaper than the price at Arkivmusic, and is also competitive with the price at Amazon. 

Well, I wasn't. Thanks for that info, Bunny. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bunny


M forever

Quote from: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 07:25:27 AM
I hope everyone here is aware that the album can be downloaded from DG at 320 kbps MP3 for $10.99!  That is considerably cheaper than the price at Arkivmusic, and is also competitive with the price at Amazon. 

Although it has been shown in blind tests that 320kbps is so close to the original that it is really hard to tell a difference, I am very disappointed that DG don't offer an uncompressed download solution in addition - formats like FLAC or APE compress the signal losslessly and quite effectively and bandwidth or storage space aren't really a problem anymore in this age of high speed internet connections and ever dropping memory prices. As far as I am concerned, I would rather spend a few $ more and have the original disc with the original artwork.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 04, 2008, 05:32:33 PM
I am trying to introduce myself to "new to me" conductors, and Sinopoli just caught my fancy, thanks in part to you and Sarge having mentioned him many times. So the Schubert will certainly go on my list also, as it seems it is a great representation of his work, as well as being among the top of my favorite music. I know I must have mentioned this before, but chamber music and solo keyboard have always been my favorite genres, I have a long way to go with orchestral music before I am ready to play "Mystery Orchestra". :D

You are ready to play "Mystery Orchestra" now (apart from the fact that right now, I don't have much time to spend for that, plus most of my CDs are still packed up from my recent move across the continent). As I never tire of saying, guessing the performers is only part, and probably the least "important"  part of the "game". The blind discussion is what makes it really interesting and fun and where we all learn the most, and to give your impressions and participate in the discussion, you don't have to have an "encyclopedic knowledge" of orchestral and performance styles. Just good musical common sense is enough!

There is indeed a lot of good stuff from Sinopoli out there that I can highly recommend. IMO, Sinopoli was an outstanding conductor and it is a great tragedy that he passed away so early. I know he was quite "controversial" because he liked to do things in a different way and questioned many traditional views, the critics in London loved to hate him but the "reality" is, the Philharmonia played and sounded phenomenally under him. Sinopoli had a very fine sense of color and balance as well as the expressive quality of sound substance. He often managed to open up the textures of complex orchestral pieces and "shine light" into them. Many of his performances of complex late-romantic repertoire "illuminated" the music from within and created complex musical soundscapes which were fascinating to listen to and explore as a listener. He also had a very through understanding of musical style, so all that taken together made him and the Staatskapelle Dresden, an orchestra with a particularly rich and complex sonority and very distinguished playing style, an ideal match which produced some quite unique results. Contrary to some who attested him a lack of professionality and dwelled on the fact that he did not get along very well with some orchestras earlier in his career, many orchestral musicians, in particular in Dresden and also at the Deutsche Oper in Berlin where he conducted often during the 80s and where he collapsed on the podium that fateful night had a lot of respect for his craftsmanship. I also had the opportunity to play Mahler 1 under him once and was very impressed by how well prepared he was and how clear his concept was and how he worked very meticulouslyand professionally towards realizing his idea of the music. 

BorisG

Quote from: M forever on May 06, 2008, 10:06:29 AM

There is indeed a lot of good stuff from Sinopoli out there that I can highly recommend. IMO, Sinopoli was an outstanding conductor and it is a great tragedy that he passed away so early. I know he was quite "controversial" because he liked to do things in a different way and questioned many traditional views, the critics in London loved to hate him but the "reality" is, the Philharmonia played and sounded phenomenally under him. Sinopoli had a very fine sense of color and balance as well as the expressive quality of sound substance. He often managed to open up the textures of complex orchestral pieces and "shine light" into them. Many of his performances of complex late-romantic repertoire "illuminated" the music from within and created complex musical soundscapes which were fascinating to listen to and explore as a listener. He also had a very through understanding of musical style, so all that taken together made him and the Staatskapelle Dresden, an orchestra with a particularly rich and complex sonority and very distinguished playing style, an ideal match which produced some quite unique results. Contrary to some who attested him a lack of professionality and dwelled on the fact that he did not get along very well with some orchestras earlier in his career, many orchestral musicians, in particular in Dresden and also at the Deutsche Oper in Berlin where he conducted often during the 80s and where he collapsed on the podium that fateful night had a lot of respect for his craftsmanship. I also had the opportunity to play Mahler 1 under him once and was very impressed by how well prepared he was and how clear his concept was and how he worked very meticulouslyand professionally towards realizing his idea of the music. 

An exceptional individual. A man for all seasons.
His scientific leanings probably had much to do with his detailed preparedness and execution.
I usually found his readings more analytical than musical. Though not my preference, they were always worth listening to.
R.I.P.

Bunny

Quote from: M forever on May 06, 2008, 10:06:29 AM
Although it has been shown in blind tests that 320kbps is so close to the original that it is really hard to tell a difference, I am very disappointed that DG don't offer an uncompressed download solution in addition - formats like FLAC or APE compress the signal losslessly and quite effectively and bandwidth or storage space aren't really a problem anymore in this age of high speed internet connections and ever dropping memory prices. As far as I am concerned, I would rather spend a few $ more and have the original disc with the original artwork.
[...]

I'm sure that "lossless" downloads will become available in the near future.  There are already some record labels (Linn records, for instance) who are selling master tape quality downloads! I'm sure DG will want to be competitive, as will Itunes and even Amazon.  As demand grows, so will the market. 

I recently purchased some of DG's Al Fresco titles which are sold without liners or librettos, I found a web address, instructions and a password inside the albums to to download all of the texts.  I would guess that DG supplies texts and graphics as a download when you buy from their online store for their regular MP3 titles.  As for the sound quality of the Sinopoli Beethoven, I listened to a track or two and it sounded pretty good to me. 

Bonehelm


PSmith08

Quote from: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 11:44:53 AM
I'm sure that "lossless" downloads will become available in the near future.  There are already some record labels (Linn records, for instance) who are selling master tape quality downloads! I'm sure DG will want to be competitive, as will Itunes and even Amazon.  As demand grows, so will the market. 

I recently purchased some of DG's Al Fresco titles which are sold without liners or librettos, I found a web address, instructions and a password inside the albums to to download all of the texts.  I would guess that DG supplies texts and graphics as a download when you buy from their online store for their regular MP3 titles.  As for the sound quality of the Sinopoli Beethoven, I listened to a track or two and it sounded pretty good to me. 

You usually get the album artwork, but PDF booklets come only with certain releases (mostly the newer stuff). Also, not every release is gapless. They seem to have corrected that issue, as - when I bought the 1962 Vienna Fidelio by Karajan - I found that it had gapless playback.


M forever

Or maybe you upgraded your mp3 player to a version which supports gapless playback? A lot of them didn't have that until fairly recently.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: M forever on May 06, 2008, 10:06:29 AM
You are ready to play "Mystery Orchestra" now (apart from the fact that right now, I don't have much time to spend for that, plus most of my CDs are still packed up from my recent move across the continent). As I never tire of saying, guessing the performers is only part, and probably the least "important"  part of the "game". The blind discussion is what makes it really interesting and fun and where we all learn the most, and to give your impressions and participate in the discussion, you don't have to have an "encyclopedic knowledge" of orchestral and performance styles. Just good musical common sense is enough!

Well, I suppose if I can overcome my basic shyness, I could have a shot at it whenever you are ready. Since naming the orchestra will likely never be my goal anyway. :)

QuoteThere is indeed a lot of good stuff from Sinopoli out there that I can highly recommend. IMO, Sinopoli was an outstanding conductor and it is a great tragedy that he passed away so early. I know he was quite "controversial" because he liked to do things in a different way and questioned many traditional views, the critics in London loved to hate him but the "reality" is, the Philharmonia played and sounded phenomenally under him. Sinopoli had a very fine sense of color and balance as well as the expressive quality of sound substance. He often managed to open up the textures of complex orchestral pieces and "shine light" into them. Many of his performances of complex late-romantic repertoire "illuminated" the music from within and created complex musical soundscapes which were fascinating to listen to and explore as a listener. He also had a very through understanding of musical style, so all that taken together made him and the Staatskapelle Dresden, an orchestra with a particularly rich and complex sonority and very distinguished playing style, an ideal match which produced some quite unique results. Contrary to some who attested him a lack of professionality and dwelled on the fact that he did not get along very well with some orchestras earlier in his career, many orchestral musicians, in particular in Dresden and also at the Deutsche Oper in Berlin where he conducted often during the 80s and where he collapsed on the podium that fateful night had a lot of respect for his craftsmanship. I also had the opportunity to play Mahler 1 under him once and was very impressed by how well prepared he was and how clear his concept was and how he worked very meticulously and professionally towards realizing his idea of the music. 

I really have no problem with individuality in interpretation, as long as the result remains musically cohesive, and avoids what i think of as grotesqueness; like great amounts of rubato for example. There may well be a place for this, but not in music of the era that I prefer (1750-1850 with some Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak thrown in). But driving a hot machine like the Dresdeners, it would be a shame not to maximize their potential for first class playing.

The Schubert is in the mail, should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. I think I will take Bunny's tip and download the Beethoven. After that, I would like to try some music I am less familiar with, maybe early 20th century (but not Mahler, please!). Any recs for Strauss or something similar by these forces would be appreciated. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
L'Archibudelli / Immerseel - Bia 455-1 Op 70 #1 Trio #4 in D for Piano & Strings 3rd mvmt - Presto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

PSmith08

Quote from: M forever on May 09, 2008, 03:22:44 PM
Or maybe you upgraded your mp3 player to a version which supports gapless playback? A lot of them didn't have that until fairly recently.

No, sir. Same player over both intervals. It supported gapless before, and it certainly does now. In most works, especially the stuff I am liable to buy off DGWS, it doesn't matter; it is, however, annoying in the few works where it does.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 09, 2008, 03:58:12 PM
The Schubert is in the mail, should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. I think I will take Bunny's tip and download the Beethoven. After that, I would like to try some music I am less familiar with, maybe early 20th century (but not Mahler, please!). Any recs for Strauss or something similar by these forces would be appreciated. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
L'Archibudelli / Immerseel - Bia 455-1 Op 70 #1 Trio #4 in D for Piano & Strings 3rd mvmt - Presto


See about the Strauss Vier letzte Lieder and Wagner Wesendonck-Lieder with Cheryl Studer, Sinopoli, and the SK. Dresden. Very nice.

M forever

A good recommendation. I will write some more about good Strauss recordings with Sinopoli later (prolly tomorrow), but for now, let me just say that the recording of Ein Heldenleben is just sensational and one of the most beautiful sounding recordings of orchestral music I have ever heard. When Sinopoli became principal conductor of the SD, he said (with a big wink in his eyes) that he would have to teach the orchestra how to play Strauss...a pretty daring statement considering that they are the quintessential Strauss orchestra...but what he meant was that he wouldn't accept traditional ways uncritically, but also put them to the test and review them, and the way he approached Strauss' music with them was great, he understood and respected their traditions and what he called the "sort of art deco sound with which the orchestra plays this music", but he also critically relflected it and made his own contributions there. The result is fascinating and highly complex - and it sounds just fabulous.

PSmith08

Quote from: M forever on May 09, 2008, 10:12:33 PM
A good recommendation. I will write some more about good Strauss recordings with Sinopoli later (prolly tomorrow), but for now, let me just say that the recording of Ein Heldenleben is just sensational and one of the most beautiful sounding recordings of orchestral music I have ever heard. When Sinopoli became principal conductor of the SD, he said (with a big wink in his eyes) that he would have to teach the orchestra how to play Strauss...a pretty daring statement considering that they are the quintessential Strauss orchestra...but what he meant was that he wouldn't accept traditional ways uncritically, but also put them to the test and review them, and the way he approached Strauss' music with them was great, he understood and respected their traditions and what he called the "sort of art deco sound with which the orchestra plays this music", but he also critically relflected it and made his own contributions there. The result is fascinating and highly complex - and it sounds just fabulous.

I'm looking forward to it, as I am always almost ready to pull the trigger on his Die Frau, but as much as I like Sinopoli, I always wonder if he's competition for Böhm and Karajan in that work.