Franz Schubert

[George]

For Schubert's Piano Sonatas, what would be the general recommendation.....only the late ones, or all of them?  And if just the last ones, just the last three, or last *insert number*?

General recommendation? Maybe Kempff or Brendel or Schnabel or Richter or Lupu or Klien.

My recommendation? Richter, starting with this:

[ChamberNut]

General recommendation? Maybe Kempff or Brendel or Schnabel or Richter or Lupu or Klien.

My recommendation? Richter, starting with this:

Merci bien, mon jumeau! 

[George]

Merci bien, mon jumeau! 

Your welcome. You have a PM too. 

[karlhenning]

Of all composers before the 20th century, I've had the toughest time with Schubert.  His symphonies, anyway.  Maybe it's that I cannot bear how none other than the Eighth is the Unfinished (though I don't disregard other symphonies of, e.g., Mozart or Beethoven just because they are not the K.550 or the Opus 125).  Maybe I still cannot shake the grudge I have with the Great because of tedium previously endured.  There's one earlier Schubert symphony which I like just fine, in addition to the sublime B Minor . . . but . . . one of these days, I have to try his cycle again.

[George]

Of all composers before the 20th century, I've had the toughest time with Schubert.  His symphonies, anyway. 

Me too, Karl. I actually have found much of his output tough to connect with. The Impromptus appealed to me immediately and after some time the Sonatas, but the Symphonies and String Quartets remain a challenge for me.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Of all composers before the 20th century, I've had the toughest time with Schubert.  His symphonies, anyway.  Maybe it's that I cannot bear how none other than the Eighth is the Unfinished (though I don't disregard other symphonies of, e.g., Mozart or Beethoven just because they are not the K.550 or the Opus 125).  Maybe I still cannot shake the grudge I have with the Great because of tedium previously endured.  There's one earlier Schubert symphony which I like just fine, in addition to the sublime B Minor . . . but . . . one of these days, I have to try his cycle again.

Me too, Karl. I actually have found much of his output tough to connect with. The Impromptus appealed to me immediately and after some time the Sonatas, but the Symphonies and String Quartets remain a challenge for me.

Little trouble for me appreciating - adoring! - Schubert. Been a lifelong fan from the beginning.

But to me Schubert lives or dies depending on whether a performer feels Schubert is a progressive or retro (or perhaps even 'transitional'). Progressive and the true meaning of Schubert opens up to me; retro (his 'classical prettiness') and Schubert slips back into the shade.

It's a formula that's worked well for me over the years and may aid others in coming to terms with Schubert. (I find Schubert's progressiveness more pronounced in his middle- to late-period works, BTW).

[karlhenning]

Little trouble for me appreciating - adoring! - Schubert. Been a lifelong fan from the beginning.

But to me Schubert lives or dies depending on whether a performer feels Schubert is a progressive or retro (or perhaps even 'transitional'). Progressive and the true meaning of Schubert opens up to me; retro (his 'classical prettiness') and Schubert slips back into the shade.

It's a formula that's worked well for me over the years and may aid others in coming to terms with Schubert. (I find Schubert's progressiveness more pronounced in his middle- to late-period works, BTW).

Thanks for your comment, neighbor!

[zamyrabyrd]

Of all composers before the 20th century, I've had the toughest time with Schubert.  His symphonies, anyway.  Maybe it's that I cannot bear how none other than the Eighth is the Unfinished (though I don't disregard other symphonies of, e.g., Mozart or Beethoven just because they are not the K.550 or the Opus 125). 

How about the piano sonatas, the piano trios, the sublime string quintet, and the relatively unknown string quartets (except for the "Death and the Maiden") without even going into the vocal music? This year in class we went a bit deeper into the 8th and 9th symphonies which increased my admiration for him. This composer was surely not superficial, had one of the finest minds in music ever. And his detail was uncanny, even the smallest of rests or agogic marks are significant.

Though Schubert can be longwinded at times, he never just writes boring filler to fill up the proportions of form as what sometimes is found in Beethoven's Sonatas.

ZB

[Coopmv]

Me too, Karl. I actually have found much of his output tough to connect with. The Impromptus appealed to me immediately and after some time the Sonatas, but the Symphonies and String Quartets remain a challenge for me.

You should check out the Harnoncourt's Schubert Symphonies.  I bought the set a few months ago and the performance is superb ...

[Brian]

You should check out the Harnoncourt's Schubert Symphonies.  I bought the set a few months ago and the performance is superb ...

Them's the ones! The only Schubert symphony set I've ever had and the only one I've ever wanted. Every challenger I audition pales in comparison, and moreover, Harnoncourt's scholarship in creating a new edition of the scores makes these performances sound very different from any other. More than most revisions by the "HIP" crowd, the historical inquiries into Schubert's original scores, versus the heavily tweaked published versions, has resulted in what amounts to a whole new set of symphonies.

The only blot on the set is the totally nonsensical program note by Peter Haertling, who claims that the symphonies are each chapters in a great musical novel, or somesuch garbage.

[George]

You should check out the Harnoncourt's Schubert Symphonies.  I bought the set a few months ago and the performance is superb ...

I get the feeling that if I don't, Harnoncourt will kick my ass.  

Seriously, I've heard good things, but I would more likely try Wand.

[Coopmv]

Them's the ones! The only Schubert symphony set I've ever had and the only one I've ever wanted. Every challenger I audition pales in comparison, and moreover, Harnoncourt's scholarship in creating a new edition of the scores makes these performances sound very different from any other. More than most revisions by the "HIP" crowd, the historical inquiries into Schubert's original scores, versus the heavily tweaked published versions, has resulted in what amounts to a whole new set of symphonies.

The only blot on the set is the totally nonsensical program note by Peter Haertling, who claims that the symphonies are each chapters in a great musical novel, or somesuch garbage.

My first exposure to Harnoncourt's Schubert was from this CD I bought some 20 years ago ...

[Gurn Blanston]

I get the feeling that if I don't, Harnoncourt will kick my ass.  

Seriously, I've heard good things, but I would more likely try Wand.

Wand is good, but much like everyone else's (maybe a bit better, but you know what I mean). Harnoncourt's is rather more unique. What Brian said.



----------------
Listening to:
Christopher Hogwood - K 494 Rondo in F for Keyboard

[Brian]

More than most revisions by the "HIP" crowd, the historical inquiries into Schubert's original scores, versus the heavily tweaked published versions, has resulted in what amounts to a whole new set of symphonies.

To give an idea, there are 1.5 pages of the booklet given over to listing major, audible changes in the performing editions; for example, in the fourth symphony a bar has been added to the second movement and eight bars have been added to the first, and the finale opens with solo bassoon rather than two bassoons and full cello section; in many places later editors of Schubert's work revised sudden dynamic changes (ie from piano to fortissimo) to make them more gradual and more "proper," but Harnoncourt restores them to the original, rather jarring (dare I say thrilling?) style...

[Coopmv]

Wand is good, but much like everyone else's (maybe a bit better, but you know what I mean). Harnoncourt's is rather more unique. What Brian said.



----------------
Listening to:
Christopher Hogwood - K 494 Rondo in F for Keyboard

I have the Schubert Symphonies sets by Karajan, Colin Davis, Marriner and Harnoncourt.  I do think the Harnoncourt's set is probably the best ...

[George]

But to me Schubert lives or dies depending on whether a performer feels Schubert is a progressive or retro (or perhaps even 'transitional'). Progressive and the true meaning of Schubert opens up to me; retro (his 'classical prettiness') and Schubert slips back into the shade.

It's a formula that's worked well for me over the years and may aid others in coming to terms with Schubert. (I find Schubert's progressiveness more pronounced in his middle- to late-period works, BTW).

Which recordings of the Symphonies and Quartets fall into the progressive category, in your opinion? I ask because we share a love of Richter's Schubert, so I expect there should be some consistency in our enjoyment of performances of other works. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Which recordings of the Symphonies and Quartets fall into the progressive category, in your opinion? I ask because we share a love of Richter's Schubert, so I expect there should be some consistency in our enjoyment of performances of other works. 

I don't find any of the early symphonies rising to the peaks of 'progressiveness', so to be honest I haven't really explored them much (I'm sure they don't deserve it ).

The ninth symphony however is a fabulous work and Bernstein's Concertgebouw recording on DG has long been my favorite.

But when I think of 'progressive' I tend to think more of Schubert's chamber music than anything. His late string quartets, piano trios, middle-to-late piano sonatas, and string quintet are simply marvels of creativity.

'Progressive' to me means Schubert without smoothing over the musical lines. Kinda like Richter, I suppose. Letting the invention shine while downplaying the outward classicism. A sort of "de-prettified" Schubert I guess I'd call it. But never ugly. Just transparent.

For the late string quartets my favorite pair of discs comes from the Takacs quartet on Decca. The later Hyperion disc is good, too, but I'm still fonder of the grittier attack of the earlier Takacs.

In the piano trios I really enjoy the second (digital) Beaux Arts set. Very wide dynamics with plenty of strength. The Golub, Kaplan, Carr Trio on Arabesque is a quality achievement, too.

The piano sonatas you already know my favorite. He's tops for me.

In the string quintet, well, the whole thing is progressive right from the start but I enjoy most the Quatuor Sine Nomine on Claves. I think you'd really like this one, George - such a rich, husky tone they produce. Yet agile. If I had to I'd say get this one first (look to the European Amazons, however, here's a link). After that there's the Hagen and the Hollywood.


     

[George]

Thanks very much, Don! 

[DavidW]

Well I disagree with popular opinion that you just have to find the right performances, it's not the performances that are the problem.  His symphonies are fun to listen to but are not where the core of Schubert's genius lies.

Karl, I agree with ZB in order of great to very good, listen to: lieder, solo piano music, masses, piano trios, string quintet, string quartets.

[Jay F]

My favorite Schubert (whom I like second after Mahler):

Solo piano music, especially the last three sonatas. My favorites, maybe because they are my imprint versions, are from Brendel's first set on Philips.

Piano Trios, especially by the Beaux Arts Trio. I also liked whatever version of op. 100 was used in Barry Lyndon. There was also a version I liked in the late 1980s, on Harmonia Mundi.

The late String Quartets. I've never heard versions I don't like. Currently, I listen to the Takacs on CD, and the Melos on LP.

The String Quintet. I like the Rostopovich/Melos on CD; Amadeus on LP

And I have a three-CD set of the three main song cycles (Die Schone Mullerin, Schwanengesang, Winterreise) by Andras Schiff and Peter Schreier that I play obsessively at times. It usually kicks off as fall turns into winter, though I didn't listen at all for a few years.

I haven't been listening as much to classical as I sometimes do, because I bought, and am using, a new turntable, and I find it hard to listen to many classical LPs because of surface noise.