Author Topic: Franz Schubert  (Read 100168 times)

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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #580 on: January 25, 2020, 04:59:21 PM »
There was an early HIP effort in the 1970s by Demus and members of the Collegium aureum with chamber music by Schubert etc. Only the "Trout" and the Notturno appeared on CD, I believe, but they are both extraordinarily good. Nowadays probably only in harmonia mundi's German Romanticism box. This seems still available and while I have not heard the Freischütz, of the rest I consider the Ameling and Pregardien discs as essential as the Trout just mentioned and the sonatas with Demus and Winterreise with Schopper also pretty good. In any case for $20 or less, it is well worth the price, even if one wants only two or three discs of 10.



Damn, Jo, you tempt me. This looks excellent, and for that price! But I must try my best to exercise restraint; I already have most of this music. Are these all original instruments recordings? I definitely don't have much as far as period performances of the early Romantic.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #581 on: January 25, 2020, 05:07:00 PM »
I am looking to get a good full Schwanengesang... I'm down to these three:







Any opinions? Based on what I've heard, I am very torn, they all sound great. Perhaps I'm forgetting a few other essentials...?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 05:10:27 PM by vers la flamme »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #582 on: January 25, 2020, 08:53:07 PM »
I think the Schreier is exceptional. I like the Goerne very much,  and the Beethoven songs are nice enough.  fiDi is not for me.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 08:55:38 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline JBS

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #583 on: January 25, 2020, 09:02:50 PM »
Goerne/Brendel is good, but I think Goerne/Eschenbach is a touch better..



Goerne's entire Schubert series on Harmonia Mundi is, I think worth getting.

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #584 on: January 26, 2020, 12:45:51 AM »
The German romanticism box is all on old instruments with the exception of the Brahms' lieder with Ameling. Documentation is fairly minimal, so you'd have to get texts and translations elsewhere. That's the only drawback, I'd say.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline North Star

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #585 on: January 26, 2020, 01:57:13 AM »
I haven't really looked into other recordings of this music that much after getting Trio Dali's excellent set, although I should spend more time with the period instrument recordings by La Gaia Scienza et al.





Trio no. 2 is also on their Youtube channel
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0elEVa3Qxfg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0elEVa3Qxfg</a>
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #586 on: January 26, 2020, 04:22:50 AM »
I woke up this morning absolutelty convinced that Busch had recorded the Notturno with Serkin. But no, I was wrong, I was confusing it with the Fantasia D934, which in fact I prefer to the Notturno. Anyway, litening to this took me back to the days when my musical life was a lot simpler. More naive.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dsqC-Wr6XhE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dsqC-Wr6XhE</a>
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 04:24:59 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #587 on: January 26, 2020, 06:18:18 AM »
I pulled the trigger on the Schiff/Schreier. I do not have any Schreier in my library so it will be nice to change that, especially in light of his recent passing. RIP.

I'm listening to the Chilingirian Quartet recording of the G major quartet now. What a challenging work, I'm afraid I can't make much sense of it. I'll have to return to it with score in hand.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #588 on: January 26, 2020, 07:32:08 AM »
I pulled the trigger on the Schiff/Schreier. I do not have any Schreier in my library so it will be nice to change that, especially in light of his recent passing. RIP.

I'm listening to the Chilingirian Quartet recording of the G major quartet now. What a challenging work, I'm afraid I can't make much sense of it. I'll have to return to it with score in hand.


Very hard to get that quartet off the page, like D840. Without the first movement repeats it loses what makes it special for me, and with the repeats it sounds boringly repetitive. Maybe try Tetzlaff. Melos too.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 07:54:32 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #589 on: January 26, 2020, 07:57:14 AM »

Very hard to get that quartet off the page, like D840. Without the first movement repeats it loses what makes it special for me, and with the repeats it sounds boringly repetitive. Maybe try Tetzlaff. Melos too.

I'll check it out. The two recordings I have, Chilingirian and Italiano, are over 10 minutes difference in length; I'm guessing the Chilingirians do not observe the repeat. Anyway I couldn't make it past the first movement. The other massive chamber work, the String Quintet, lasts almost an hour but the time flies. I would even say the same of Marta Deyanova's D894, the one you didn't like. But I cannot say the same about the G major quartet, or not yet anyway. Some of Schubert's late music is quite challenging.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #590 on: January 26, 2020, 08:05:07 AM »
And there's this

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/hoVbax1ZtF0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/hoVbax1ZtF0</a>
Schubert in these pieces was just not at all about taking you on a journey forward to a goal. It's about the experience in the moment, as it were. It's extremely prescient, it bucks the romantic tendency, and wasn't taken up again until the second half of the C20. 
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #591 on: January 26, 2020, 09:08:20 AM »
For the great G major you could try either a fastish version (usually w/o repeat) like Busch, Budapest, Juilliard (all somewhat old) or the slowest I have heard, namely Kremer and friends on CBS/Sony (with a 23 min first mvmt). The first approach makes the piece more "classical" with the first movement not as dominating, the second one makes it more Mahlerian (or maybe Feldmanesque).


Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #592 on: January 26, 2020, 09:22:45 AM »
For the great G major you could try either a fastish version (usually w/o repeat) like Busch, Budapest, Juilliard (all somewhat old) or the slowest I have heard, namely Kremer and friends on CBS/Sony (with a 23 min first mvmt). The first approach makes the piece more "classical" with the first movement not as dominating, the second one makes it more Mahlerian (or maybe Feldmanesque).



Or Brucknerian maybe
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Offline amw

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #593 on: January 26, 2020, 11:07:36 AM »
My references for D887 are the Artemis Qt, Hagen Qt, Juilliard Qt (1960 Epic). Tetzlaff Qt might also be a good introduction; it plays up the drama a bit more.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #594 on: January 26, 2020, 11:12:40 AM »
Or Brucknerian maybe

I'd rather have a Mahlerian Schubert than a Brucknerian one. A Schubertian Schubert is the best, though.  :)
What is Music? How do you define it? Music is a calm moonlit night, the rustle of leaves in Summer. Music is the far off peal of bells at dusk! Music comes straight from the heart and talks only to the heart: it is Love!  --- Rachmaninoff

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #595 on: January 26, 2020, 12:16:09 PM »
Damn, Jo, you tempt me. This looks excellent, and for that price! But I must try my best to exercise restraint; I already have most of this music. Are these all original instruments recordings? I definitely don't have much as far as period performances of the early Romantic.

Yep, all period instruments recordings.
(It's a bit more complicated to say something about the singers though. ;) But one thing is sure: they are all very fine!)

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #596 on: January 31, 2020, 04:40:33 AM »
Happy birthday to the great master. 223 years...

What Schubert are we listening to today? So far, for me, the Wanderer Fantasy, the "Great" C major symphony, about half of Winterreise, and now the 4 Impromptus, D935, courtesy of Alfred Brendel...:



The more I listen to this CD, the more convinced I am of Brendel's Schubert. I still don't like that he skips repeats in the last three sonatas, but I may have to return to them with an open mind.

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #597 on: January 31, 2020, 11:31:24 AM »
There was an early HIP effort in the 1970s by Demus and members of the Collegium aureum with chamber music by Schubert etc. Only the "Trout" and the Notturno appeared on CD, I believe, but they are both extraordinarily good. Nowadays probably only in harmonia mundi's German Romanticism box. This seems still available and while I have not heard the Freischütz, of the rest I consider the Ameling and Pregardien discs as essential as the Trout just mentioned and the sonatas with Demus and Winterreise with Schopper also pretty good. In any case for $20 or less, it is well worth the price, even if one wants only two or three discs of 10.



I had some very nice recordings by the Collegium Aureum on LP back in the day (the ProArte label). Mozart #41, Beethoven Eroica, I always wondered what became of them.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #598 on: January 31, 2020, 01:31:20 PM »
Happy birthday to the great master. 223 years...

What Schubert are we listening to today?

Did a very quick comparison of various Winterreise just for the most appealing vocal qualities.  I settled on Jonas Kaufmann and Christa Ludwig.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #599 on: February 01, 2020, 06:38:43 AM »
Did a very quick comparison of various Winterreise just for the most appealing vocal qualities.  I settled on Jonas Kaufmann and Christa Ludwig.

Ludwig! I did not know she sung the Winterreise. Good you think?

I listened to about half of the DFD/Jörg Demus Winerreise yesterday. Very good