Author Topic: Franz Schubert  (Read 131802 times)

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Offline André

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #700 on: June 17, 2022, 11:43:20 AM »
Currently going through my Schubert collection - just listened to Hurwitz on Symphony Cycles and he puts Bloomstedt, Wand, & Muti at the top of 16 or so sets discussed; the Bloomstedt reviews are quite good (minor complaints about age of the recordings and sound) - currently, I own the first 3 cycles below and just ordered the Bloomstedt (will 'cull out' Kertesz) from Amazon (only $20 Prime).

This afternoon, I perused this thread and plenty 'symphony' comments were posted - Immerseel seems to be favored in the PI category; for MI performances, recordings go back over a half century (e.g. Kertesz) - not sure if much 'new' has been released as to complete sets?  Dave :)

     

Dave, do give a go to Suitner with the Staatskapelle Berlin, originally from Denon. IMHO it’s as close to perfection (concept, execution, sound) as can be desired. Muti is fine but manages to sound both glassy and gummy (engineering ?) and for my taste Blomstedt lack fire in the belly.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #701 on: June 17, 2022, 11:44:42 AM »
Sonatas Violin & Piano - did not remember that I owned 3 sets of these works (2 on period instruments) - listening now to portions of each and enjoy all - reviews attached for those interested - but I'll just keep them - assume there are some other recommendations so please comment.  Dave :)

   

Offline DavidW

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #702 on: June 17, 2022, 11:45:13 AM »
I also really like the Bruggen set.  But I'm not sure that he brings anything to the table that Immerseel doesn't. 

Offline Florestan

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #703 on: June 17, 2022, 11:47:51 AM »
will 'cull out' Kertesz

Big mistake, Dave, big mistake.

Quote
not sure if much 'new' has been released as to complete sets? 



Recently I've greatly enjoyed two incomplete and far from being new sets:


"I’ve always said music should make you laugh, make you cry or make you think." - Kenny Rogers

Offline Florestan

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #704 on: June 17, 2022, 12:00:03 PM »
Sonatas Violin & Piano - did not remember that I owned 3 sets of these works (2 on period instruments) - listening now to portions of each and enjoy all - reviews attached for those interested - but I'll just keep them - assume there are some other recommendations so please comment.  Dave :)

"I’ve always said music should make you laugh, make you cry or make you think." - Kenny Rogers

Offline VonStupp

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #705 on: June 17, 2022, 12:26:20 PM »
Big mistake, Dave, big mistake.

Agreed! I gave that set a listen to a month or two back and enjoyed it immensely. I also like that Harnoncourt cycle very much too.

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #706 on: June 17, 2022, 12:29:47 PM »
Dave, do give a go to Suitner with the Staatskapelle Berlin, originally from Denon. IMHO it’s as close to perfection (concept, execution, sound) as can be desired. Muti is fine but manages to sound both glassy and gummy (engineering ?) and for my taste Blomstedt lack fire in the belly.

Hi André - well, I saw your Suitner recommendation in reviewing the thread this afternoon, but seems to be available only as separate discs (and expensive) or as downloads, i.e. box seems to be OOP - I'll keep looking - thanks.  Dave :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #707 on: June 17, 2022, 12:34:11 PM »
Big mistake, Dave, big mistake.



Recently I've greatly enjoyed two incomplete and far from being new sets:



Hi Andrei - well, space as always is the issue, BUT I was planning to do some A-B listening between Kertesz and Bloomstedt upon its arrival in a few days - may decide that I like Kertesz better?  Thanks for the other suggestions.  Dave :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #708 on: June 17, 2022, 12:45:16 PM »


Thanks again Andrei for the additional suggestions for the Violin/KB Sonatas - in all honesty, I listened to my PI recordings and greatly enjoyed, so will keep and not replace; as to the Golub/Kaplan MI recording - well done also, but willing to listen to others - saw the Julia Fischer recording on Amazon (and have her in other performances, so kind of a favorite); also have Ibragimova/Tiberghien in the Mozart Violin Sonatas - will definitely look around for availability (bought all of their Hyperion sets of Wolfie's works from BRO).  Dave :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #709 on: June 17, 2022, 12:48:33 PM »
Agreed! I gave that set a listen to a month or two back and enjoyed it immensely. I also like that Harnoncourt cycle very much too.
VS

Hi VS - Harnoncourt and Immerseel will stay - I'll give some comparative listenings to Kertesz & Bloomstedt on the latter's arrival - I assume that you mean the Kertesz performances (above in bold)?  Thanks - Dave :)

Offline VonStupp

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #710 on: June 17, 2022, 01:02:32 PM »
Hi VS - Harnoncourt and Immerseel will stay - I'll give some comparative listenings to Kertesz & Bloomstedt on the latter's arrival - I assume that you mean the Kertesz performances (above in bold)?  Thanks - Dave :)

Yes, Kertesz. It may also be that I am easy to please in Schubert...? :)

VS
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #711 on: June 17, 2022, 04:54:01 PM »
Currently going through my Schubert collection - just listened to Hurwitz on Symphony Cycles and he puts Bloomstedt, Wand, & Muti at the top of 16 or so sets discussed; the Bloomstedt reviews are quite good (minor complaints about age of the recordings and sound) - currently, I own the first 3 cycles below and just ordered the Bloomstedt (will 'cull out' Kertesz) from Amazon (only $20 Prime).

This afternoon, I perused this thread and plenty 'symphony' comments were posted - Immerseel seems to be favored in the PI category; for MI performances, recordings go back over a half century (e.g. Kertesz) - not sure if much 'new' has been released as to complete sets?  Dave :)

     

I'd disagree with Hurwitz on Blomstedt or his obsession with Blomstedt in general. The RCO Harnoncourt is the first Schubert cycle I bought and still remains one of my favorites, but I personally find his newer one with the BPO has supplanted it in terms of performances.



Add me to the voices of the choir that wouldn't have got rid of Kertesz :)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 04:56:59 PM by hvbias »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #712 on: June 17, 2022, 10:59:50 PM »
There is another, I think the earliest Harnoncourt cycle from the 1988-90? with the CO of Europe that appeared posthumuously also has some dedicated fans. I am not sufficiently overwhelmed by the Concertgebouw/NH and not fan enough of Schubert's 1-6 to shell out for the Berlin or CoE. For modern sound with the great Staatskapelle Dresden, I'd recommend C. Davis although I think the Blomstedt with the same orchestra might be overall regarded more highly (and the older with Sawallisch should not be overlooked either).
The Rosamunde incidental music with Münchinger is probably the best out there (although apart from the ouverture that is often used as a filler it might not be essential Schubert)

The essential violin piece is of course the fantasy and I'd recommend the Kremer (w/ Afanassiev, it's better than his recording of the 3 earlier sonatas with a different pianist). Isabelle Faust also did (most?) of this music.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 11:37:02 AM by Jo498 »
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Offline Todd

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #713 on: June 18, 2022, 11:11:35 AM »
For big band Schubert, Zubin Mehta's is the best full cycle I've heard, though I've not heard some of the big names.  For small band Schubert, Antonello Manacorda's is a corker. 

The conductor who should record the rest of the symphonies is Thomas Hengelbrock.  He has recorded the best First I've heard by some margin, one of the very greatest Great C Majors - which can be compared to any other version - and a superb Unfinished.  Maybe he slowly finishes it.  He should also record all other core rep.
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #714 on: June 20, 2022, 10:04:18 AM »
Hi VS - Harnoncourt and Immerseel will stay - I'll give some comparative listenings to Kertesz & Bloomstedt on the latter's arrival - I assume that you mean the Kertesz performances (above in bold)?  Thanks - Dave :)

I'd disagree with Hurwitz on Blomstedt or his obsession with Blomstedt in general. The RCO Harnoncourt is the first Schubert cycle I bought and still remains one of my favorites, but I personally find his newer one with the BPO has supplanted it in terms of performances.

Add me to the voices of the choir that wouldn't have got rid of Kertesz :)

Well, the Blomstedt arrived and this morning I listened to 2 discs each from that set and Kertesz on headphones, to check for tape hiss (not really evident - excellent sound w/ both recordings) - actually I had forgotten how good the older Kertesz recordings were - so, I've decided to keep both!  :laugh:

As to reviews for those interested - attached are 3 excellent ones for Blomstedt, but could not find much for Kertesz although our own VonStupp left an excellent one on Amazon which is included.  Now the additional recommendations piqued my interest, i.e. the newer Harnoncourt and the Manacorda - will check Spotify later.  Dave :)

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #715 on: June 21, 2022, 01:05:28 PM »
After mention of it, I remembered I had the Hengelbrock 9, so I listened to it. Very good... up to the last chord, which he plays as a diminuendo. This is completely unconvincing IMO, It's obviously an accent!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 04:19:57 PM by calyptorhynchus »

Offline André

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #716 on: June 24, 2022, 10:04:12 AM »


Symphonies 1-8, as per the new numbering. I’ll get used to it. I listened to all 8 in the past weeks in these performances under composer-conductor Hans Zender. The SWF orchestra plays extremely well and is recorded in very flattering acoustics (3 different venues). Interpretations are of the classical persuasion, closer to Harnoncourt or Abbado than Böhm, Karajan or Davis. While not my first choice as a set (that’s Suitner), I happily place it 2nd or 3rd in my affection (Abbado is the other contender, although he is sometimes controversial). If you can find this set, give it a try. It’s lively, lovely, unimpeachable and beautifully recorded.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #717 on: June 24, 2022, 01:25:42 PM »


Symphonies 1-8, as per the new numbering. I’ll get used to it. I listened to all 8 in the past weeks in these performances under composer-conductor Hans Zender. The SWF orchestra plays extremely well and is recorded in very flattering acoustics (3 different venues). Interpretations are of the classical persuasion, closer to Harnoncourt or Abbado than Böhm, Karajan or Davis. While not my first choice as a set (that’s Suitner), I happily place it 2nd or 3rd in my affection (Abbado is the other contender, although he is sometimes controversial). If you can find this set, give it a try. It’s lively, lovely, unimpeachable and beautifully recorded.

Hi André - I now own 4 Schubert Symphony cycles and others mentioned piqued my interest, but I'm never going to listen to these that often and 2 or 3 would be enough - you seem to have a wide aural appreciation of many of these cycles - if willing, could you list your top ones (3 or 4 is fine) - thanks!  Dave :)   P.S. if you don't care to do a listing, then no problem w/ me.

Offline André

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #718 on: June 24, 2022, 05:08:12 PM »
I love complete sets because nos 1-4 are among my favourite symhonies ever. So they MUST do good by them to earn a place on my shelves  :) . I find this more important than boasting an outstanding 8th or 9th, which are already thick on the ground.

My favourite set ever is the Suitner because it is outstanding in all 8 symphonies, including a powerful, radiant, dynamic 9th. Then I like the Abbado for its meticulous way with every single note as well as the outstanding recorded sound. Some of the symphonies under Abbado are a mite serious for my taste, but the playing is always fresh and zippy, so there’s not a dull moment. For a rounded, warm and sunny view of the first 5 Zender and the SWF are hard to beat. They even manage to make the 6th interesting and have excellent ideas in the last 2 symphonies.

There are other sets that are very interesting (Wand, Karajan, Davis, Böhm, Muti, Blomstedt, Marriner, Kertesz) but for me something is either lacking or de trop. I must re-evaluate Harnoncourt RCOA (haven’t heard the BP set). I haven’t listened to it in years.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #719 on: June 25, 2022, 05:44:46 AM »
I love complete sets because nos 1-4 are among my favourite symhonies ever. So they MUST do good by them to earn a place on my shelves  :) . I find this more important than boasting an outstanding 8th or 9th, which are already thick on the ground.

My favourite set ever is the Suitner because it is outstanding in all 8 symphonies, including a powerful, radiant, dynamic 9th. Then I like the Abbado for its meticulous way with every single note as well as the outstanding recorded sound. Some of the symphonies under Abbado are a mite serious for my taste, but the playing is always fresh and zippy, so there’s not a dull moment. For a rounded, warm and sunny view of the first 5 Zender and the SWF are hard to beat. They even manage to make the 6th interesting and have excellent ideas in the last 2 symphonies.

There are other sets that are very interesting (Wand, Karajan, Davis, Böhm, Muti, Blomstedt, Marriner, Kertesz) but for me something is either lacking or de trop. I must re-evaluate Harnoncourt RCOA (haven’t heard the BP set). I haven’t listened to it in years.

Thanks André for sharing your thoughts - would love to have the Suitner but appears OOP, however, will look for 'used' copies, if available - as to Harnoncourt, I own the RCOA and enjoy but am curious about his newer release discussed in previous posts?  The Kertesz and Blomstedt I still find enjoyable to my 'less critical' ears; and the Immerseel will stay in my collection unless a similar approach is available, e.g. the Manacorda seems to be a small chamber orchestra using period practices w/o the PI instruments to match?    Dave :)