Author Topic: Franz Schubert  (Read 113367 times)

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DavidW

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #640 on: August 04, 2021, 12:30:52 PM »
Anyway, my own ranking would be 8, tie 3/6, 4, 2, 7, 5, 1. amw has good taste.

Are you deliberating using a different numbering system or intentionally omitting the great C major?

Offline Brian

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #641 on: August 04, 2021, 06:29:18 PM »
Are you deliberating using a different numbering system or intentionally omitting the great C major?
I'm so young I actually grew up with the new numbering!

Edit: sorry if that is rubbing it in  ;D

Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #642 on: August 04, 2021, 11:06:08 PM »
I came to use numbers mostly for 1-6 and take the time to write out b minor or Great C major for the others. I cannot bring myself to use the new numbers.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

DavidW

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #643 on: August 05, 2021, 05:53:10 AM »
I'm so young I actually grew up with the new numbering!

Edit: sorry if that is rubbing it in  ;D

Can you tell me how the new numbers map to the old?

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #644 on: August 05, 2021, 08:03:11 AM »
Can you tell me how the new numbers map to the old?

7 was a placeholder for a work which is lost (IIRC). So the b minor became 7 and the Great C Major became 8.

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DavidW

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #645 on: August 05, 2021, 10:18:34 AM »
Oh that's simple enough.

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #646 on: August 05, 2021, 12:44:58 PM »
I refer to Symphonies 1-10, 10 being a performing version of sketches that Schubert made on shortly before his death, 7 a symphony he composed in short score but didn't orchestrate. 7 and 10 are amongst my favourites.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #647 on: August 05, 2021, 01:14:01 PM »
I refer to Symphonies 1-10, 10 being a performing version of sketches that Schubert made on shortly before his death, 7 a symphony he composed in short score but didn't orchestrate. 7 and 10 are amongst my favourites.

I'd love to hear these, are recordings available?—and if so, are there any you recommend?

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #648 on: August 05, 2021, 07:15:21 PM »
They're reconstructions/orchestrations by Brian Newbould. They appeared in a set of all the symphonies (plus some other fragments reconstructed) played by Neville Marriner and the Academy and St Martin in the Fileds. Originally on Philips and has been reissued in a  couple of guises since. You'll be amazed by No.10.

Offline amw

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #649 on: August 05, 2021, 07:51:49 PM »
"Symphonies 1-10" comes from the Marriner box set which actually includes twelve putative symphonies—if one includes D729 in the numbering, no reason not to include D615 and D708a as well (would therefore technically be symphonies 7 & 8; D729 is 9, the "Unfinished" is 10, the Great C major is 11, and D936a is 12). I guess twelve isn't as catchy of a number, though.

I grew up with both the Marriner "The 10 Symphonies" box set and the Bärenreiter Symphonies 1-8 critical edition, so I have no particular opinion on the numbering myself.

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #650 on: August 05, 2021, 09:17:25 PM »
I have a disc from Charles Mackerras and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra with reconstructions of the three symphonies that were found in a single folio, D615, D708A and D936A (Hyperion Records). I haven't listened to it.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #651 on: August 05, 2021, 10:36:20 PM »
The D 936a fragment is most fascinating. I don't know if the reconstruction might be partly responsible but it sounds spookily like Mahler.

I think on old LPs one can find occasionally #7 for the Great C major. Later on D 729 E major was sometimes counted as #7 (the other fragments were usually not counted). And there was a legend (the "Gmunden-Gasteiner Sinfonie") and a 20th century fake also posing as #7. To my knowledge, nowadays the opinion is that the ominous Gasteiner is identical to the Great C major.
One confusion was caused by the date 1828 on the autograph of D 944 but his turned out to  be a later addition (or only the date of a late revision). It seems now fairly certain that the piece was already composed 1825.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #652 on: August 06, 2021, 01:41:32 AM »
I have a disc from Charles Mackerras and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra with reconstructions of the three symphonies that were found in a single folio, D615, D708A and D936A (Hyperion Records). I haven't listened to it.

Going to seek this out.

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Franz Schubert - fav piano sonata set
« Reply #653 on: September 12, 2021, 04:06:57 AM »
Hi, Schubert fans, favorite piano works set?

I'm seeing a few names that I'm a little unfamiliar such as Leonskaja, Zacharias, and Dalberto. I do own several single discs from Uchida, Brendal, Wosner, and Richter, but there are some earlier sonatas I'd like to get and I'm always up for duplicates of some of my favorites.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated!

Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: Franz Schubert - fav piano sonata set
« Reply #654 on: September 12, 2021, 04:21:13 AM »
Hi, Schubert fans, favorite piano works set?

I'm seeing a few names that I'm a little unfamiliar such as Leonskaja, Zacharias, and Dalberto. I do own several single discs from Uchida, Brendal, Wosner, and Richter, but there are some earlier sonatas I'd like to get and I'm always up for duplicates of some of my favorites.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated!

I really like Andras Schiff set of complete sonatas, impromptus and moments musicaux. However, I realize he isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #655 on: September 12, 2021, 04:30:59 AM »
The early sonatas are a mess with fragments that are nevertheless often counted making the numbering very confusing. I have probably heard all of them (as I have the Diapason box that presumeably has all) but not enough to consider any before D 664 A major (which has many famous recordings, incl. Richter) essential. This seems to be a shared opinion as e.g. Brendel and Zacharias omit several of the early sonatas in their boxes. I think Dalberto is very complete with all early and partial sonatas.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline VonStupp

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Re: Franz Schubert - fav piano sonata set
« Reply #656 on: September 12, 2021, 04:49:57 AM »
Hi, Schubert fans, favorite piano works set?

I'm seeing a few names that I'm a little unfamiliar such as Leonskaja, Zacharias, and Dalberto. I do own several single discs from Uchida, Brendal, Wosner, and Richter, but there are some earlier sonatas I'd like to get and I'm always up for duplicates of some of my favorites.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated!

Wilhelm Kempff has always been my guy, but I realize he doesn't plumb the depths of man's soul in Schubert. I sprung for the blu-ray audio set a couple of years ago.

VS
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Franz Schubert - fav piano sonata set
« Reply #657 on: September 12, 2021, 04:53:52 AM »
I really like Andras Schiff set of complete sonatas, impromptus and moments musicaux. However, I realize he isn't everyone's cup of tea.

There is no accounting for taste, I had some of the Schiff recordings on Decca and found them unlistenable - too heavy handed. I like Kempff, although in some cases the audio engineering leaves a lot to be desired (thin, brittle DG audio). I like Uchida, generally, but sometimes she comes off as too precious, to me. Maybe the first Brendel would be my overall favorite (admittedly have not listened to all of it) and I have high hopes for the Badura-Skoda on period instruments, which I recently acquired but have not heard. I'd suggest if have some of the individual discs, let that be your guide.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 04:07:54 PM by Spotted Horses »

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Franz Schubert - fav piano sonata set
« Reply #658 on: September 12, 2021, 04:55:05 AM »
Wilhelm Kempff has always been my guy, but I realize he doesn't plumb the depths of man's soul in Schubert. I sprung for the blu-ray audio set a couple of years ago.

VS

I don't understand that comment. I think Kempff's soul is deeper than Schubert's. :)

Offline amw

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Re: Franz Schubert
« Reply #659 on: September 12, 2021, 05:45:09 AM »
Hi, Schubert fans, favorite piano works set?
On period instruments, Schiff and Badura-Skoda. Bilson should also not be overlooked. On modern instruments I guess Lupu and Endres, plus Badura-Skoda again (not as good as his period instruments set but still very high quality), and Dalberto also sometimes works, although no one still comes close to Schnabel and Erdmann.

I like most of the early sonatas