Franz Schubert

[bhodges]

Alrighty then, please continue with Schubert talk.

--Bruce

[VonStupp]

So any favorite recordings of any of the masses?

As far as sets are concerned, I like Sawallisch for a very middle-road, old school German approach. Mostly for his starry soloists of yesteryear and his exhaustive 7-CD set of Schubert symphonic choral works on Warner.

I personally didn't care for Bruno Weil's HIP account on Sony, mainly because my preferences don't include boy choristers in this music. I have not heard Marcus Creed's cycle on Capriccio.

Individually, I really enjoyed Abbado's two recordings of the Mass in G and E-flat on DG, two of Schubert's most enjoyable masses in excellent performances. Hickox has a fast-moving, hard-hit HIP E-flat on Chandos with wonderful British soloists.

I have not heard Harnoncourt in the E-flat or A-flat which could also be very good, and I think Gardiner did the E-flat or A-flat as well, depending on your tastes there is something for everyone! 

VS

[vers la flamme]

Personally I like the Weil/Vivarte discs. I have the two late Schubert masses. I also have Sawallisch in Bavaria which I like, but not as much as the Weil. Must admit Schubert's masses may have yet to fully "click" with me.

[VonStupp]

Personally I like the Weil/Vivarte discs. I have the two late Schubert masses. I also have Sawallisch in Bavaria which I like, but not as much as the Weil. Must admit Schubert's masses may have yet to fully "click" with me.

You might try the exquisite (and more compact) Mass in G (No. 2); it is only 20 minutes and full of wonderful melodies; the Agnus Dei, passed amongst the soloists, is of the divine.

Opposed to the epic Mass in E-flat (and A-flat for that matter), which climbs close to 60 minutes in length; these could require more patience in their length, but there are wonderful big moments there too.

VS

[Karl Henning]

I am actually 5"2 (160cm) and just over 200 pounds. I'm even bigger, but most guys do admit I am pretty.
I also think it is kinda messed up you would hate him just because of a common condition back in the 1800s. I just see a little contempt here. But whatever. None of that stuff doesn't mean he wasn't hot. You can stick to your plastic boyz, G.

At the risk of stating the obvious: this is a forum for the discussion of classical music. If you need to tell the world how pretty you are, this is not that rostrum.

[bhodges]

At the risk of stating the obvious: this is a forum for the discussion of classical music. If you need to tell the world how pretty you are, this is not that rostrum.

Quite right. In any case, after a flurry of abusive comments, this account has been laid to heavenly rest.  0:)

Carry on. 

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

Quite right. In any case, after a flurry of abusive comments, this account has been laid to heavenly rest.  0:)

Carry on. 

--Bruce

What a bit of luck for us "plastic boyz!"

[bhodges]

What a bit of luck for us "plastic boyz!"

--Bruce

[LKB]

What a bit of luck for us "plastic boyz!"

[DavidW]

VS I'm going to try Abbado with the Mass in G which also includes a Schumann work.  I'll let you know what I think.

[Karl Henning]

VS I'm going to try Abbado with the Mass in G which also includes a Schumann work.  I'll let you know what I think.

Do, thanks.

[VonStupp]

Do, thanks.

+1 and I hope it all goes well! 

[VonStupp]

What evidence is there for Schubert being a destructive drinker?

I once read an anecdote about Schubert in a program note once regarding this. The first is from Franz Schubert: The Ariel of Music by Robert Haven Schauffler:

A little over his measure would usually send him alone into a secluded corner where, with narrowed eyes, he grew more silent than the double bassoon in the symphony orchestra. His instinct then was for deeds, not words. He would grin genially and smash all the crockery and glassware within reach - Robert Haven Schauffler

And the second from a San Francisco program:

While under the influence, he liked nothing more than to smash glassware and crockery, making him – understandably – a less-than-welcome guest in Vienna's homes and hostelries - Robert Greenberg

I do think, however, that Schubert probably suffered from depression due to his disease, and his drinking may have been a result. Luckily we still have so much wonderful music from him, that despite any of his personal shortcomings, we can continue on in his remarkable musical abilities as a composer.

VS

[Florestan]

I once read an anecdote about Schubert in a program note once regarding this. The first is from Franz Schubert: The Ariel of Music by Robert Haven Schauffler:

And the second from a San Francisco program [Robert Greenberg]:

Neither of those Roberts were contemporaries of, let alone friends / acquaintances of, Schubert so their testimony is to be taken cum grano salis.

Did Schubert back then drink more than John Doe drinks today? Probably. Did John Doe back then drink more than John Doe drinks today? Certainly.

Once again, during the early 19th century drinking wine or beer was safer than drinking water.

[VonStupp]

Neither of those Roberts were contemporaries of, let alone friends / acquaintances of, Schubert so their testimony is to be taken cum grano salis.

Did Schubert back then drink more than John Doe drinks today? Probably. Did John Doe back then drink more than John Doe drinks today? Certainly.

Once again, during the early 19th century drinking wine or beer was safer than drinking water.

Ah yes, but the question was whether or not Schubert had qualities which made him attractive.

Whether or not Schauffler was a contemporary of Schubert matters not a lick to me. The notion of him having syphilis AND breaking my housewares does. My wife would have an even greater problem with this whole stream of hypothetical conversations, I think..., but I still don't think she would want him around

Conversely, you can enjoy any of his personal qualities you wish, and more power to you! 

VS

[DavidW]

It is a common misconception that people were just drunk all the time back in the day.  It is just not true.  Frequently wine or beer would be watered down.  And people did actually drink water.

Let's face it.  Schubert might be one of the greatest composers that ever lived, but he also is like that guy that had to be duct-taped down in the airplane.

[VonStupp]

Let's face it.  Schubert might be one of the greatest composers that ever lived, but he also is like that guy that had to be duct-taped down in the airplane.

[Jo498]

It is a common misconception that people were just drunk all the time back in the day.  It is just not true.  Frequently wine or beer would be watered down.  And people did actually drink water.

Yes. That people didn't drink water (or coffee, tee, milk, lemonade...) is a strange myth. There was also "small beer" or similar stuff with very low (about 2% or less) alcohol content.

And there are also highly functional alcoholics today and there would have been back then, especially people who didn't drive or operate machinery, so being a bit loaded would not have mattered at all. Not sure about Schubert but there were also artists like Hoffmann or Mussorgsky who drank themselves to an early grave but were nevertheless functional for quite while...

I wonder about that episode with crockery. Seems impossible to imagine as a regular habit and sounds like one or few unfortunate incident maybe when intoxicated (and I bet Schubert was not the only one intoxicated at that party when the glasses were broken).

[bhodges]

Let's face it.  Schubert might be one of the greatest composers that ever lived, but he also is like that guy that had to be duct-taped down in the airplane.

This is the best comment I have read on this board today.

--Bruce

[LKB]

I'll take a drunken Schubert over any living composer, and most of the dead ones.