Franz Schubert

[lukeottevanger]

Don't know what dance it could be, but the tune is a Swedish song, 'Se solen sjunker' (The sun is setting). I've always heard it simply described as a folksong, but apparently there's a little uncertainty about this - Schubert seems to have heard it in 1827 from a visiting Swedish musician called Iask Albert Berg, and it is possible that Berg was the author of the song.

[Ciel_Rouge]

Ah yes, the piece sounds very Scandinavian-like now that you mention it - sort of reminds me of Sibelius (I know, he was from Finland, but still sounds sort of in the same spirit of wide open space covered with snow and lit by the Sun hanging very low and adding colour). However, the song is superimposed on a rhythm that does strongly resemble a dance of Spanish origin - you can hear it in the first few notes opening this movement... I still wonder what could that be as I am still a beginner and do not have proper knowledge about dances.

[hornteacher]

In studying the history of music I've come across different stories about the early Romantics.  For example, Schubert was someone who looked up to Beethoven and was a torchbearer at his funeral.  After Schubert's death, Schumann (on a trip to Vienna) found the unperformed "Great" C Major Symphony and took it back to Leipzig where Mendelssohn conducted it.

BUT

Did Schubert actually know any of them personally?  Was there a friendship there or was he just known by reputation?

[Gurn Blanston]

In studying the history of music I've come across different stories about the early Romantics.  For example, Schubert was someone who looked up to Beethoven and was a torchbearer at his funeral.  After Schubert's death, Schumann (on a trip to Vienna) found the unperformed "Great" C Major Symphony and took it back to Leipzig where Mendelssohn conducted it.

BUT

Did Schubert actually know any of them personally?  Was there a friendship there or was he just known by reputation?

No.

Schubert did see Beethoven here and there, at dinner and at Tobias' publishing house, but tales of their actually meeting are apocryphal. Mendelssohn wasn't in Vienna, he was in Germany. And Schumann was late to the scene, as you noted. The only musician that there is any documentation for meeting Schubert was Antonio Salieri, who gave him lessons in putting words and music together properly. That is one of the oddities of Schubert's life: he lived in Vienna, the City of Music, but (other than an undocumented, casual meeting) he didn't know any other musicians. All of his friends in the Arts were literary.

[hornteacher]

That is one of the oddities of Schubert's life: he lived in Vienna, the City of Music, but (other than an undocumented, casual meeting) he didn't know any other musicians.

Yes, that's what struck me as odd.  I was trying to trace a linear progression of Romantic composers (i.e. Mendelssohn helped Schumann, Schumann helped Brahms, Brahms helped Dvorak), but Schubert seemed to be off on his own.  Thanks for the details.  You da man, Gurn.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, that's what struck me as odd.  I was trying to trace a linear progression of Romantic composers (i.e. Mendelssohn helped Schumann, Schumann helped Brahms, Brahms helped Dvorak), but Schubert seemed to be off on his own.  Thanks for the details.  You da man, Gurn.

Well, coincidentally, I am reading 2 books on Schubert right now, and both of them mention this peculiarity: Schubert was nearly the only major composer who had no friends in the business. A mentor might have been nice, although it may have changed the essential Schubert that we have come to know and love.

You're welcome, amigo.

[max]

To me Schubert is perhaps the most underestimated composer of all time.

He underestimated himself.
He was severely underestimated by his contemporaries even though Beethoven is reputed to have said that "a divine spark" exists in Schubert.
And...he remains somewhat undervalued today!

How many times does one get to hear his last great Masses and much less so some of the great vocal music extracted from his operas which admittedly were failures in that genre.

There is a hell of allot more to listen to in Schubert than we normally get to hear.

How many times for example, does one get to listen to the German Mass whose Heilig, Heilig (Sanctus) I would nominate as the World's anthem and why not since every nation has one. Change a few words and you have the perfect World Anthem imo.   

[Solitary Wanderer]

Perhaps my favorites out of my recent explorations of his work are the Masses.  I never had paid much attention to them before; there are so many composers and so much music that something good is bound to fall through the cracks.  The late E-flat Mass (D.950) is quite expansive and complex, and I'm sure I will discover a lot on repeated listenings.  The shorter G major Mass (D.167) is quite enjoyable, and I find it to be more interesting and complex than many of the other early works.
Heather

Yes, I'm on a Schubert 'jag' at the moment - diiging into his music that I'd missed before including these Masses.

I have this set:



Wonderfully profound, moving, uplifting, joyful etc.  0:)

[Solitary Wanderer]

Apart from the B minor and C major 'Great' symphonies (both excellent) I've never read of any of Schubert's earlier symphonies being singled out.

I plan to listen to them all having aquired a boxset, but I'm just wondering...

Is there a 'best of the rest' or are they all fairly average?

[Herman]

Well, coincidentally, I am reading 2 books on Schubert right now, and both of them mention this peculiarity: Schubert was nearly the only major composer who had no friends in the business. A mentor might have been nice, although it may have changed the essential Schubert that we have come to know and love.

You're welcome, amigo.

I cannot help but think this musicological loneliness deeply informs Schubert's singular idiom.

[Opus106]

Apart from the B minor and C major 'Great' symphonies (both excellent) I've never read of any of Schubert's earlier symphonies being singled out.

I plan to listen to them all having aquired a boxset, but I'm just wondering...

Is there a 'best of the rest' or are they all fairly average?

No. 5. You might fool yourself into thinking that it was written by Haydn, or even Mozart. Nothing spectacular, but it has a very memorable opening. 

[snyprrr]

I've just had my first real dip with Schubert in the Alban Berg/Teldec box set, which contains Schubert's SQs D804 "Rosamunde" (a-minor) and D173 in g-minor, and honestly, after the Mozart, I'm just not all that impressed with Schubert yet.

I know I heard "Death and the Maiden" somewhere, but I'm not left yearning for it. I suppose I have yet to hear the last, D887 in G-major. I remember enjoying the Quartettsatz in c-minor once, though.

Cherubini vs. Schubert SQs: who wins?

[Opus106]

The man with the "divine spark," just for those last three or four works.

[Herman]

Cherubini vs. Schubert SQs: who wins?

that's a deep question isn't it?

[ChamberNut]

I've just had my first real dip with Schubert in the Alban Berg/Teldec box set, which contains Schubert's SQs D804 "Rosamunde" (a-minor) and D173 in g-minor, and honestly, after the Mozart, I'm just not all that impressed with Schubert yet.

I know I heard "Death and the Maiden" somewhere, but I'm not left yearning for it. I suppose I have yet to hear the last, D887 in G-major. I remember enjoying the Quartettsatz in c-minor once, though.

STRING QUINTET in C MAJOR, D956  It's a must hear snyprrr! 

[karlhenning]

I know I heard "Death and the Maiden" somewhere, but I'm not left yearning for it.

Well, if you're not yearning, you're not yearning.

I have a very nice recording by the Boston Chamber Players to which I enjoy returning.

[snyprrr]

that's a deep question isn't it?

Just trying to get a Handel on who else was written SQs 1804-26.

Krommer is the other major name, ending with Op.103 (e, C, a; 1821). And Onslow.

Everyone keeps saying of Schubert, "the very last works," so I assume the G major D887 is the biggy.

[Herman]

Schubert's G major quartet is a major piece, yes. So are the other two. Maybe, however, this is not your time...

[Gurn Blanston]

I cannot help but think this musicological loneliness deeply informs Schubert's singular idiom.

Completely agree. Although I can't help but feel that it is a good thing, not having anyone telling him "no, changing from dominant major to dominant minor is NOT a modulation, Schwammerl...".   It seems like a situation akin to Haydn's, as he described it in being isolated in Esterhazy. Even though Schubert was smack in the middle of a major musical metropolis he was still essentially on his own and constantly developing his personal idiom.



----------------
Listening to:
Orchestra of Brittany / Sanderling - Méhul Overture to Le Jeune Sage et le Vieux Fou

[Gurn Blanston]

Cherubini vs. Schubert SQs: who wins?

Easy; we do!

Two very different things: even though they were composed at the same time, Cherubini's SQ's are quintessentially classical, while Schubert is making his own path. One which was followed by a lot of others in the next 75 years. If you are just coming to Schubert, you will have to spend some time learning his ways, or at least I did. Worth every bit of the effort.