Cyril Scott

[cilgwyn]

Szymanowski also springs to mind (symphony No2),but I wouldn't like to compare the two. Anyway,as far as I know Szymanowski wasn't a part time occultist!

It strikes me that some familiarity with the likes of of Madam Blavatsky,Dion Fortune,the Golden Dawn (not the Greek one! ) Lobsang Rampa and Alexandra David-Neel probably helps you tune into Scott's shadowy,arcane realm. Not that I'm an avid reader of such authors,but I did read allot of stuff like that in my younger days,I'm afraid! Israel Regardie,Christopher Hyatt,Aleister Crowley,Lyall Watson (Supernature,The Romeo Error,Austin Osman Spare,Mac Gregor Mathers,etc,etc.........!!!! Although,I don't think Scott was ever a member of the Golden Dawn like Arthur Machen of 'Great God Pan','Shining Pyramid','Angel of Mons' fame (He's another one & Welsh too! ). Perhaps he should have been. They could have all met up and had a good old occult knees up!!

Incidentally,I just noticed a new book advertised on the Amazon website. 'The Aesthetic life of Cyril Scott' by Sarah Collins (Boydell Press 21 March 2013,280 pages). Advertised as the first comprehensive account of Scott's life and influences. A bit expensive for me at the moment,though (Yee-ikes!! ).

Going back to the cds;while the standouts for most collectors are the First Piano Concerto,Third Symphony,Neptune,and to a lesser extent,'Early one morning';I particularly like the 'Fourth Symphony'. I love this darkly,mysterious score and I love the way he brings that theme back towards the end,bringing the whole symphony back,for me anyway ,a very satisfying conclusion. If the early comparisons with Debussy have any truth in them,this steelier sounding,impressionistic late score by the composer,is more akin to 'Jeux'! Anyway,again,I don't like to compare the two!! (One being an acknowledged master.....and it's not Scott!).
I also enjoyed the Violin Concerto and Second Piano Concerto,this time around,and that bizarre 'Festival Overture' with that unexpected choir at the end. Most bizarre. Definately,a case for cracking out that Greek incense burner I've got in the cupboard! (My parents brought it back from one of their holidays in happier days....only my father left now! ).

Okay,let's get back to the innermost sanctum of my mystic temple and put me feet up and listen to some more!!

[Moonfish]

*bump*

I just listened to the Cello Concerto (Watkins) and I think Cyril Scott has gained another acolyte.  Amazing! This is indeed a majestic cello concerto! I was completely entranced!

Scott: Cello Concerto           Watkins/BBC Philharmonic/Brabbins

https://www.youtube.com/v/ZyLPwDSA1Qc

[cilgwyn]

I can't believe I missed out the Cello Concerto from my previous post! Shome mistake,ed!! It strikes me as a more gripping work than the Violin Concerto I did mention. I like the Cello Concerto,too! A bit spooky in places. I'm not sure I'd want to listen to it with the lights out! I also enjoy his chamber and piano music which,imho,lifts Scott into the same orbit as composers like Bax,Bridge and Ireland;although not quite on the same level of inspiration as Bax or,particularly,Bridge,at his best. It is here that Scott strikes me as being an important figure in British music. His solo piano music being particularly satisfying and quite different to Bax or Ireland. His orchestral music is intriguing and often very compelling;but on the whole it seems to lack the consistency and focus of his work in smaller forms. The Dutton recordings were marvellous. A pity Chandos seem to have lost interest as there is allot more to explore. I enjoyed everything I listened to on those Chandos cds;although the inspirational level was not always consistent. The First Piano Concerto,Third Symphony,Neptune and Early one Morning tend to get the most mentions amongst music lovers;but I think the Cello Concerto and Fourth Symphony are equally compelling and I do rather like that wierd Festival Overture with that wacky chorus bit. Oh,and I actually do quite like the Second Piano Concerto,as well,when I'm in the right mood.

[Moonfish]

I can't believe I missed out the Cello Concerto from my previous post! Shome mistake,ed!! It strikes me as a more gripping work than the Violin Concerto I did mention. I like the Cello Concerto,too! A bit spooky in places. I'm not sure I'd want to listen to it with the lights out! I also enjoy his chamber and piano music which,imho,lifts Scott into the same orbit as composers like Bax,Bridge and Ireland;although not quite on the same level of inspiration as Bax or,particularly,Bridge,at his best. It is here that Scott strikes me as being an important figure in British music. His solo piano music being particularly satisfying and quite different to Bax or Ireland. His orchestral music is intriguing and often very compelling;but on the whole it seems to lack the consistency and focus of his work in smaller forms. The Dutton recordings were marvellous. A pity Chandos seem to have lost interest as there is allot more to explore. I enjoyed everything I listened to on those Chandos cds;although the inspirational level was not always consistent. The First Piano Concerto,Third Symphony,Neptune and Early one Morning tend to get the most mentions amongst music lovers;but I think the Cello Concerto and Fourth Symphony are equally compelling and I do rather like that wierd Festival Overture with that wacky chorus bit. Oh,and I actually do quite like the Second Piano Concerto,as well,when I'm in the right mood.

Ahh, it is refreshing to partake of your enthusiasm, Cilgwyn! I just happened to stumble across the cello concerto (I was having a YouTube listening bonanza exploration session) and was pleasantly surprised, charmed and inspired. Needless to say I have to explore the further works by Cyril Scott by reading this thread and, of course, listen as much as possible.     It is always exciting to come across a composer that one is drawn to by pure serendipity. The soft, melancholic and dreamlike patterns seemingly omnipresent in Scott's music is very appealing to me.

Did you by any chance happen to listen to the recent Wallfisch recording of the cello concerto?

[asin] B00CE96HWK[/asin]

[cilgwyn]

I must admit the reviews I have seen of that recording haven't exactly tempted me! I was rather hoping that Dutton would record some of his later music which I find more interesting. I'm also not exactly a fan of all these reconstructions and finishing off of things. There has been allot of discussion about this at the Art Music Forum and I tend to agree with them.

[Mirror Image]

I'm also not exactly a fan of all these reconstructions and finishing off of things.

+1

[vandermolen]

Am currently enjoying 'Neptume' a hauntingly atmospheric work. He has his own style but reminds me a bit of a cross between Bax and Delius.

[cilgwyn]

Indeed! I have collected allot of his instrumental and chamber music,including all the Dutton releases. While I enjoy allot of his orchestral music,I believe that it is in instrumental and chamber music that Scott is at his finest. Very interesting and satisfying music,imho,that has been ignored too long,and in a purely British context,an important contribution to these forms. Amongst his orchestal output,Neptune is one of his best,along with the First Piano Concerto and third Symphony. These would be great for a Prom;but I fear the critics would maul them! I also like the steely,impressionism of his Fourth symphony very much,his Cello concerto,Early One Morning.......and the wierd and wacky Festival Overture is fun,when I'm in the right mood,for something a bit different!! I wish Chandos had recorded a bit more! That said,it is to his instrumental and chamber music I return the most. In fact,I've got a bit more in the post;coupled with some Bantock and an ambitious Violin Sonata by Roger Sacheverell Coke. The superb,recently released Somm cd of his piano music being greatly enjoyed here right at this very moment!

[vandermolen]

Was just listening to 'Early one Morning' on Lyrita, which is a delightful work. I must listen properly to symphonies 3 and 4. I like the CD below of chamber music:
[asin]B002VFCE8I[/asin]

[cilgwyn]

I like allot of Cyril Scott's chamber and instrumental music. I think his best music in these areas. I love the slithery textures and fin de siècle sound world of this music on this particular cd;the later music becoming more austere;but,in it's own way,equally fascinating. His orchestral works,on the evidence available,tends to be more 'samey' in terms of the textures and soundworld. Although,I think,at it's best, some of the music;notably,the First Piano Concerto is,in it's own way,very original. His third symphony and Neptune are veritable showpieces for the orchestra. It is astonishing that music of such quality should have remained unheard for so long. I also like his Fourth Symphony;which with it's strange,steely,haunted soundworld. Parts of Early
One morning are quite ravishing.  His Cello Concerto is interesting,too. I find parts of it quite spooky. Not music I would want to listen to with the lights off! His Festival Prelude is less successful,but in  it's own way wierdly fascinating. That said,I do think it is in the areas of instrumental and chamber music that Cyril Scott actually excelled. I certainly find this area of his output every bit as enjoyable and interesting as that of his more well known and hallowed contemporaries.The Dutton cds of his chamber and instrumental music are particularly fascinating and I have listened to every one of them. The Chandos,Naxos and BMS (British Music Society) cds are also extremely interesting and enjoyable.

[cilgwyn]

More Cyril Scott! Lovely,lyrical music. The Piano Quartet is an early work & somewhat Brahmsian,but none the worse for it!

[vandermolen]

I like allot of Cyril Scott's chamber and instrumental music. I think his best music in these areas. I love the slithery textures and fin de siècle sound world of this music on this particular cd;the later music becoming more austere;but,in it's own way,equally fascinating. His orchestral works,on the evidence available,tends to be more 'samey' in terms of the textures and soundworld. Although,I think,at it's best, some of the music;notably,the First Piano Concerto is,in it's own way,very original. His third symphony and Neptune are veritable showpieces for the orchestra. It is astonishing that music of such quality should have remained unheard for so long. I also like his Fourth Symphony;which with it's strange,steely,haunted soundworld. Parts of Early
One morning are quite ravishing.  His Cello Concerto is interesting,too. I find parts of it quite spooky. Not music I would want to listen to with the lights off! His Festival Prelude is less successful,but in  it's own way wierdly fascinating. That said,I do think it is in the areas of instrumental and chamber music that Cyril Scott actually excelled. I certainly find this area of his output every bit as enjoyable and interesting as that of his more well known and hallowed contemporaries.The Dutton cds of his chamber and instrumental music are particularly fascinating and I have listened to every one of them. The Chandos,Naxos and BMS (British Music Society) cds are also extremely interesting and enjoyable.

From what I know of the chamber music I agree with you although the hypnotic 'chinese' Piano Concerto.1 remains my favourite work, followed by 'Neptune' and Symphony 3.

[cilgwyn]

I think I'd probably place my choice in that order,too. Although I think I would extend it to include  the Fourth Symphony at fourth place!!   Turn down the lights and it makes me think of all kinds of strange landscapes;even alien planets! I find it a bit spooky and unsettling,so I don't actually play it that much!!   Early One Morning rambles a bit,but it has some absolutely ravishing moments.As to the best of the rest!! I think the Cello Concerto has got something going for it. I need to listen to it again before saying anything about it;except to say that it gets a bit too spooky for me at one point! Unsurprising I suppose,considering Scott was into the occult! I'm not terribly keen on Cello concertos so I'm a bit surprised to react positively to that composition. I even,quite like the Second Piano Concerto,when I'm in the right mood! The Festival Prelude is wierd enough to enjoy............ now & again. I quite like that wacky chorus. I'm not so keen on the Violin Concerto,though!! So,all in all,I tend to agree with your "favourites" list. I'd just extend it a little further......... to the Fourth Symphony! A lone fan!! I do think you have to be in the right mood for this music,though! VW,Bax,Moeran,Holst,Brian,Elgar and Delius (for example) all get played more readily and often! All said and done,it's the the chamber and instrumental music that makes the most return visits to my cd player. (When I'm playing cds of British instrumental and chamber music I usually end up playing Scott!) Some of it's quite progressive for a British composer of the time,so I think it deserves a bit more attention than it gets.

[vandermolen]

I think I'd probably place my choice in that order,too. Although I think I would extend it to include  the Fourth Symphony at fourth place!!   Turn down the lights and it makes me think of all kinds of strange landscapes;even alien planets! I find it a bit spooky and unsettling,so I don't actually play it that much!!   Early One Morning rambles a bit,but it has some absolutely ravishing moments.As to the best of the rest!! I think the Cello Concerto has got something going for it. I need to listen to it again before saying anything about it;except to say that it gets a bit too spooky for me at one point! Unsurprising I suppose,considering Scott was into the occult! I'm not terribly keen on Cello concertos so I'm a bit surprised to react positively to that composition. I even,quite like the Second Piano Concerto,when I'm in the right mood! The Festival Prelude is wierd enough to enjoy............ now & again. I quite like that wacky chorus. I'm not so keen on the Violin Concerto,though!! So,all in all,I tend to agree with your "favourites" list. I'd just extend it a little further......... to the Fourth Symphony! A lone fan!! I do think you have to be in the right mood for this music,though! VW,Bax,Moeran,Holst,Brian,Elgar and Delius (for example) all get played more readily and often! All said and done,it's the the chamber and instrumental music that makes the most return visits to my cd player. (When I'm playing cds of British instrumental and chamber music I usually end up playing Scott!) Some of it's quite progressive for a British composer of the time,so I think it deserves a bit more attention than it gets.

I have that Chandos series and your post has encouraged me to listen to works like Symphony 4 again; an interesting and worthwhile composer. I also like PC No.2 even though it is less approachable than the hypnotic No.1:
[asin]B000M5B6MO[/asin]
I remember my youthful excitement in taking the above (on LP - same cover for once) out of the record library in High Street Kensington, near to the home in London where I grew up. The combination of John Ogdon and Bernard Herrmann makes this an unforgettable disc.

[cilgwyn]

I'll have a listen to the Second Piano Concerto No 2,soon. Scott certainly was prolific. I'm ploughing through all the chamber music cds I've got at the moment. The BMS cd seems to have disappeared,though. Annoying!! If I then go through all the Dutton cds of his piano music this could take a while! I suppose some of the problem with Scott,at times,is a certain sameness of texture. There is someone on Amazon who seems to have reviewed almost all the Scott cds (you may know who I mean?) who points this as the main problem with his output. I think he has rather got his finger on it! Example! I just listened to the Naxos cd of Violin Sonatas. I DID enjoy listening to it,particularly the two later ones;but I can see what he means. Not that it's all bad news. I didn't actually find myself looking at my watch,or looking at the track timing,or wanting to take it off!! The soundworld Scott created kept me listening. He obviously had an ear for instrumental colour and that kept me listening. The downside! Not enough variety of expression,and without looking at the cd,would I be able to tell one Violin Sonata from another?

I'm listening to the Dutton cd of the Sonata Lyrica. Now this one grabs me right from the beginning. There are melodies and ideas which I can really get a grip on. Unlike the works on the Naxos cd I also get a feeling that it really is going somewhere. Also,Scotts exotic soundworld here really is enticing. Less shadowy and haunted than some other examples of his output. It's almost like some exotic garden,with the tendrils curling their sounds around your ear 'oles. (This gardens quite sunny and warm!) This really is a lovely piece of music imho! The other works on the cd are quite lovely and beautifully played. The violin playing really is quite gorgeous at times. Oooh!   The tunes really captivate. This is  one of the best of the Dutton cds and one of the releases that makes me feel that reviving this music really is worthwhile.  I think the Sonata Lyrica,in particular,is a bit of a find! I don't mean it's a lost masterpiece,but it's music that some people will really enjoy. Me included! Catchy artwork,too! To paraphrase you,"I can't stop listening!"



Verdict: Play it again Thyril!!

[vandermolen]

I'll have a listen to the Second Piano Concerto No 2,soon. Scott certainly was prolific. I'm ploughing through all the chamber music cds I've got at the moment. The BMS cd seems to have disappeared,though. Annoying!! If I then go through all the Dutton cds of his piano music this could take a while! I suppose some of the problem with Scott,at times,is a certain sameness of texture. There is someone on Amazon who seems to have reviewed almost all the Scott cds (you may know who I mean?) who points this as the main problem with his output. I think he has rather got his finger on it! Example! I just listened to the Naxos cd of Violin Sonatas. I DID enjoy listening to it,particularly the two later ones;but I can see what he means. Not that it's all bad news. I didn't actually find myself looking at my watch,or looking at the track timing,or wanting to take it off!! The soundworld Scott created kept me listening. He obviously had an ear for instrumental colour and that kept me listening. The downside! Not enough variety of expression,and without looking at the cd,would I be able to tell one Violin Sonata from another?

I'm listening to the Dutton cd of the Sonata Lyrica. Now this one grabs me right from the beginning. There are melodies and ideas which I can really get a grip on. Unlike the works on the Naxos cd I also get a feeling that it really is going somewhere. Also,Scotts exotic soundworld here really is enticing. Less shadowy and haunted than some other examples of his output. It's almost like some exotic garden,with the tendrils curling their sounds around your ear 'oles. (This gardens quite sunny and warm!) This really is a lovely piece of music imho! The other works on the cd are quite lovely and beautifully played. The violin playing really is quite gorgeous at times. Oooh!   The tunes really captivate. This is  one of the best of the Dutton cds and one of the releases that makes me feel that reviving this music really is worthwhile.  I think the Sonata Lyrica,in particular,is a bit of a find! I don't mean it's a lost masterpiece,but it's music that some people will really enjoy. Me included! Catchy artwork,too!



Verdict: Play it again Thyril!!

More of my money draining away I suspect. 

[cilgwyn]

I didn't actually acquire this one until later,because the remainder of the cd,with the exception of the Tallahassee Suite (and the Fantasie Orientale) seemed to consist of shorter fill-ups (possibly a bit light weight?). To my surprise this is one of the best ones. Some of Scott's music has that shadowy,fin de siècle soundworld (sometimes a bit murky) that might put some people off. This one is more sunny. Exotic yes,but more like a sunny garden with a nice temple,perhaps. Maybe some pieces are a bit better than others,but the violin playing,in particular  makes some quite ravishing sounds. And of course,it's the way the two instruments seem to entwine around each other,like those plant tendrils I was referring to. I like the other cds I listened to,particularly the String Quartets,but this one has more appeal,I would say. Lovely! I just wish I had an exotic garden and temple to go with it. Or even just a garden! Now where's my pneumatic drill?!!

[vandermolen]

I didn't actually acquire this one until later,because the remainder of the cd,with the exception of the Tallahassee Suite (and the Fantasie Orientale) seemed to consist of shorter fill-ups (possibly a bit light weight?). To my surprise this is one of the best ones. Some of Scott's music has that shadowy,fin de siècle soundworld (sometimes a bit murky) that might put some people off. This one is more sunny. Exotic yes,but more like a sunny garden with a nice temple,perhaps. Maybe some pieces are a bit better than others,but the violin playing,in particular  makes some quite ravishing sounds. And of course,it's the way the two instruments seem to entwine around each other,like those plant tendrils I was referring to. I like the other cds I listened to,particularly the String Quartets,but this one has more appeal,I would say. Lovely! I just wish I had an exotic garden and temple to go with it. Or even just a garden! Now where's my pneumatic drill?!!

Have ordered it. Found a copy for £5.99 so don't feel too guilty. 

[cilgwyn]

Oh,dear! Let's hope you enjoy it! I'm still listening,though. The sound of that volin is so seductive,particulary those high notes (I'm not a musician,so I don't know the technical term) when the violin seems to sing out. I feel like one of those charmed snakes. Although snake charmers don't use violins,of course. The Tallhassee Suite and Fantasie Orientale are a case in point. Example! In the latter: After an excited double dotted fanfare "the violinist then unfolds a hypnotic,oriental sounding melody,floridly decorated". This,apparently similar in mood to Roxana's Aria from King Roger (Szymanowski). Some of the pieces are not quite on the same level as others,but the playing is always wonderful. I suppose a critic might sneer at some of the pieces as salon music,but who cares if it's this enjoyable.

[cilgwyn]

I've put this on now. I know you like this one.