Dvorak's Den

Started by hornteacher, April 07, 2007, 06:41:48 AM

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PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: hornteacher on July 16, 2007, 07:57:01 PM
Its not part of a set, but this Mackerras CD is my favorite version of the 8th and 9th (both recorded live).  Gorgeous.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=118764&album_group=5

I don't have that one, but I have this Mackerras 7-9:



Also I think everyone should own Colin Davis Amsterdam 7th and Bernstein's NYPO 9th.

hornteacher

#61
Just got this Symphony Cycle.  Its really quite good.  A very pleasant surprise!  Anyone else heard this one?

http://tinyurl.com/3528ee


Edit: GB - added tinyurl

karlhenning

(Can't believe this thread fell into such obscurity.)

TTT

hornteacher

Quote from: karlhenning on December 18, 2007, 06:05:49 PM
(Can't believe this thread fell into such obscurity.)

TTT

I KNOW!  Shame.

Just listened to the 7th Symphony.......again.  That 2nd movement is gorgeous.

rappy

Not only the 2nd (at least if you've got: Dohnanyi/ClvO)

ChamberNut

My Personal Dvorak Favorites

1 - Cello Concerto
2 - Symphony 8
3 - Symphony 7
4 - Piano Trio 'Dumky'
5 - Piano Quintet Op. 81
6 - Serenade for Winds Op 44
7 - American Suite

This is a composer that I have yet to delve into other than his symphonies.  2008 will see me checking out his string quartets and other chamber music, as well as his violin and piano concerti.  Looking forward to discovering more Dvorak  :)



hornteacher

Quote from: ChamberNut on December 19, 2007, 10:26:33 AM
2008 will see me checking out his string quartets and other chamber music, as well as his violin and piano concerti.

My friend you are in for a treat.  The SQ #10, 12, and 14 are my personal favorites.  Love the violin concerto as well.  I think its very underrated, or maybe just overshadowed by the Cello Concerto (which is understandable but still unfair).

karlhenning

Some thoughts on revisiting the Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, The Bells of Zlonice

Well, I enjoy listening to it, and I don't find that it tries my patience.  I respect the dissatisfaction that others feel towards the piece, of course;  but somehow my own experience is otherwise.

1.  Yes, it's broader than his subsequent symphonies.

2.  Yes, this is a score which passed out of his life before he might have refined it, as he is known to have refined the later symphonies.

3.  So let us acknowledge that, had Dvorak remained in possession of this score, he would likely have subjected it to a revision process which it were impossible for anyone who is not Dvorak to duplicate.  And so this hypothetical revised First Symphony (hereinafter RFS) would be music a notch or more better than the symphony as we've got it.

4.  I don't find myself dissatisfied with the symphony as it is, just because if there were a RFS, it would be better.

5.  In any event, the piece as it is, I enjoy listening to, and I don't find that it tries my patience. Maybe I don't listen to it more than once or twice in a year, where there are other Dvorak pieces I revisit much more frequently and urgently.  That's fine, too.

Bogey

#68


Harry,
You asked for a quick review of my recent listening.  Though I was planning on listening to Symphonies 1 and 3, I found that I kept looping through just No. 1 today.  First, here are the times you requested:

1st Movement 11:07
2nd Movement 12:54
3rd Movement 8:50
4th Movement 10:08

My review of this 1st Symphony is based on not owning another, so please keep this in mind.  Fortunately, I enjoyed this recording very much.  The Adagio molto was a highlight for sure.  A lot of passion here.  I found that the winds were featured quite a bit throughout this performance and rarely drifted into the background.  Fortunately their playing was first rate IMO.  The brass also seemed to be at the forefront throughout much of the performance, and may be one reason our friend hornteacher liked this set. ;D  The strings, on the other hand were powerful in spots, but definitely not the feature here.  A bit more volume from the folks running the board may have been warrented, but the winds sure were fun to have as a focal point.  Overall, not "overly" rich, but definitely heading in that direction.  I will update when I listen to further symphonies from this set.

Overall, it has made me a fan of this 1st Symphony, and I can see myself replaying it often (I believe I played it 4 times through today without tiring of it).  I seem to be a sucker for composers' No. 1's.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Harry

#69
Quote from: Bogey on January 09, 2008, 07:44:16 PM


Harry,
You asked for a quick review of my recent listening.  Though I was planning on listening to Symphonies 1 and 3, I found that I kept looping through just No. 1 today.  First, here are the times you requested:

1st Movement 11:07
2nd Movement 12:54
3rd Movement 8:50
4th Movement 10:08

My review of this 1st Symphony is based on not owning another, so please keep this in mind.  Fortunately, I enjoyed this recording very much.  The Adagio molto was a highlight for sure.  A lot of passion here.  I found that the winds were featured quite a bit throughout this performance and rarely drifted into the background.  Fortunately their playing was first rate IMO.  The brass also seemed to be at the forefront throughout much of the performance, and may be one reason our friend hornteacher liked this set. ;D  The strings, on the other hand were powerful in spots, but definitely not the feature here.  A bit more volume from the folks running the board may have been warrented, but the winds sure were fun to have as a focal point.  Overall, not "overly" rich, but definitely heading in that direction.  I will update when I listen to further symphonies from this set.

Overall, it has made me a fan of this 1st Symphony, and I can see myself replaying it often (I believe I played it 4 times through today without tiring of it).  I seem to be a sucker for composers' No. 1's.

I am pleased to hear that Bill, and first of all let me thank you for this elaborate review.
The timings are fastly different from Kubelik, the set I have and love.
M 1 13:30
M 2 11:08.
M 3 9:35.
M 4 13:36.
So overall Anguelov is a lot faster, apart from the third movement. And I think that's good, for some parts within the different movements were to slow for my liking, certainly if you look at the first measures of the first movement, which is somewhat plodding along. It needs a fast merry go off, to make it work. The Bells, are after all, movement. The first was always a favourite with me too. The brass has a lot of important entries in all movements, so its good to hear that works well. Keep me informed of your progress, especially the timings and sound. I am so curious what you make of the second movement of the second symphony, "Poco Adagio", that thrills me everytime, due to the fine wind playing, Clarinet/Hobo.....

hornteacher

Quote from: Bogey on January 09, 2008, 07:44:16 PM


The brass also seemed to be at the forefront throughout much of the performance, and may be one reason our friend hornteacher liked this set. ;D

Hadn't thought about it that way before but you're probably right.

Brian

#71
Bogey, hope you continue to post your thoughts on this cycle, as I had been greatly looking forward to hearing your thoughts. The First Symphony - will have to give this another spin now; there are not many people who become fans of the symphony on first listening, unfortunately, so it is great you are one of them.  :)  Incidentally, this set is a major step forward as far as the orchestra is concerned. In its old Naxos days, the Slovak Radio Symphony's brass was rather unimpressive (probably due to the engineering), although the winds have always been first-class.

And Harry, the second movement of the Second is really neat, as it gradually increases in tension and feeling during its progress. The last two movements are like firecrackers, aren't they - when I listen to them, I feel as if they pass by in only a matter of seconds, whereas they are actually about ten minutes apiece!  :)

Brian

Quote from: Bogey on January 09, 2008, 07:44:16 PM

Overall, it has made me a fan of this 1st Symphony, and I can see myself replaying it often (I believe I played it 4 times through today without tiring of it).  I seem to be a sucker for composers' No. 1's.
Whoa, the First certainly has a surprising little ending! I didn't remember the last few notes being that way; it caught me off guard.  :D

Harry

Quote from: Brian on January 10, 2008, 04:16:42 PM
And Harry, the second movement of the Second is really neat, as it gradually increases in tension and feeling during its progress. The last two movements are like firecrackers, aren't they - when I listen to them, I feel as if they pass by in only a matter of seconds, whereas they are actually about ten minutes apiece!  :)


Spot on Brian..... :)

Bogey

About to start my maiden listen of No. 2.  Will report out tonight.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Harry

Quote from: Bogey on January 11, 2008, 04:39:00 AM
About to start my maiden listen of No. 2.  Will report out tonight.

Bill my friend, it is almost night here, so........ ;D

Bogey

#76


Symphony No. 2 Report

Times
1st Movement 11:40
2nd Movement 13:07
3rd Movement 12:14
4th Movement 11:05

I believe I found a new parallel between Dvorak's 2nd and Beethoven's 2nd.  They are both enjoyable, but not overly memorable when put up against against their other works....at least for me.  This one also had some "leaness" to it that would have been fine had it been consistent throughout.  Also, there were some points when the brass could have really punctuated the work, but instead I found myself going back and turning up the volume during those missed opportunities.  I will say this though, once again the winds are absolutely fabulous.  Enough so that I am still pleased to have this No. 2 on the shelf.  At about the 5:15 mark of the first movement to about the 6 minute mark is a an example of their sheer beauty.  However, the wind examples are too numerous to nail all of them down. 

On a side note, I would like to hear the likes of Segerstam/Helsinki tackle this one, but alas, I believe they have not tackled much in the way of Dvorak.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Sergeant Rock

#77
Quote from: Bogey on January 12, 2008, 07:25:38 PM
Also, there were some points when the brass could have really punctuated the work, but istead I found myself going back and turning up the volume during those missed opportunities.

Hey, Bill. I just sampled Anguelov's set at JPC (and Neumann's too). I'm not going to make a final judgment based on a few clips but from what little I heard there was nothing to make me change my mind about early Dvorak symphony performances: Rowicki and the LSO still rule in 1-4. I like Rowicki's emphasis on rhythm and structure, and high drama--and love the London brass! Here's a sample I ripped so you can hear what I mean: the Scherzo from the Second:

http://rapidshare.com/files/83507323/Dvorak2Scherzo.mp3.html

The horns are magnificent; listen how Rowicki gives them their head in the introduction: great, glorious whoops! (The horns are recessed in Anguelov and Suitner, and almost inaudible in Neumann.) And then from 2:20 to 3:00 first the trombones are spotlit, then trumpets, then those horns again. The horns are incredible in the Trio too. They give me goosebumps.

I heard nothing terribly wrong with Anguelov (and much to like) but I don't think his early symphonies would thrill me like Rowicki's. No shame in that: I haven't heard better from anyone else either, including Kertesz, Kubelik, Suitner.

I do agree with Josh Lilly about Rowicki's 7-9: solid performances that don't match the best (but then there's such formidable competition here). But Rowicki's cycle is broken into three parts. The early and middle symphonies can be bought separately.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Bogey

#78
Thanks Sarge!  I will look into your rec.  I am begeinning to find out that like so many other composers, one recording of each symphony may not be enough for me, as the early Dvorak's do have much to offer IMO.  Hope all is well your way.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Bogey on January 13, 2008, 08:07:42 AM
Thanks Sarge!  I will look into your rec.  I am begeinning to find out that like so many other composers, one recording of each symphony may not be enough for me, as they early Dvorak's do have much to offer IMO.

They do, and it's a pity they're overlooked generally, in the concert halls and the recording studios. For example, I wish Dohnányi and Cleveland would have recorded the complete cycle.

Funny story: when I was dating the future Mrs. Rock, I gave her the Rowicki set (the big box of LPs). She dutifully began listening with the First, then the Second and so forth. She never got beyond the Fourth. She was so taken with the first four (and especially the D minor) that she saw no point in listening to the rest! Just kept repeating the first four. That went on for months and I couldn't get her to budge. Her enthusiasm made me listen to them with more attention and I too fell in love with them.

Quote from: Bogey on January 13, 2008, 08:07:42 AM
Hope all is well your way.

Fair to middlin'. Growing old sucks  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"