Dvorak's Den

[Bogey]

Were you trying to match your facial hair to Dvorak's on that bust?

The praise for Spillville in the wall text is really amusing! Is it still an ideal place? Goodness, I'd love to hear someone play a humoresque on one of those pianos.

Absolutely beautiful up there, Brian. 

[TheGSMoeller]

So I am continuously reading rave reviews for Pitts/Honeck's new Dvorak 8th recording. I love this symphony dearly, but it is well recorded, almost overly done, and is due for a fresh performance that is unique and can stand up to the hand full of great ones of the past. The Hurwitzer gave it a 10/10! Here's a sample from the 1st movement.

https://soundcloud.com/reference-recordings/dvorak-symphony-8-pso

[Mandryka]

The op 77 quintet, which is the one with the extra double bass, is problematic because Dvorak revised it, and as part of the revision he took out one of the slow movements, which was marked Intermezzo.

I put a recording of the whole quintet which leaves the intermezzo in place on symphonyshare - it's played by The Boston Symphony Chamber Players.

I wonder what the Dvorak experts here think about that intermezzo. Somehow,  I feel as though it just doesn't fit in with the feel and the textures of the other music in the quintet, and that Dvorak was right to remove it.

[Brian]

So I am continuously reading rave reviews for Pitts/Honeck's new Dvorak 8th recording. I love this symphony dearly, but it is well recorded, almost overly done, and is due for a fresh performance that is unique and can stand up to the hand full of great ones of the past. The Hurwitzer gave it a 10/10! Here's a sample from the 1st movement.

https://soundcloud.com/reference-recordings/dvorak-symphony-8-pso

My copy arrives Wednesday.

The op 77 quintet, which is the one with the extra double bass, is problematic because Dvorak revised it, and as part of the revision he took out one of the slow movements, which was marked Intermezzo.

I put a recording of the whole quintet which leaves the intermezzo in place on symphonyshare - it's played by The Boston Symphony Chamber Players.

I wonder what the Dvorak experts here think about that intermezzo. Somehow,  I feel as though it just doesn't fit in with the feel and the textures of the other music in the quintet, and that Dvorak was right to remove it.

I love this piece. It was one of my favorite works for a few years. I even listened to the expanded version manually, by stopping the CD, putting in another CD with the Intermezzo, and then going back. There is no doubting that all the music is wonderful and special, but on the whole, I agree with you. Good music doesn't always fit together.

[TheGSMoeller]

My copy arrives Wednesday. .

I'll PM you my mailing address for when you're done with it. 

[TheGSMoeller]

Friends, give me your Dumky. 

What is your favorite performance of the Op. 90 Piano Trio? I feel an addiction coming on with this piece.
I recently purchased...

 

...I have yet to hear the Golub Kaplan Carr Trio performance, and I really have nothing to compare the MaKim Ax disc to.

[Brian]

Friends, give me your Dumky. 

What is your favorite performance of the Op. 90 Piano Trio?

No particular order:
Guarneri Trio Prague (Praga)
Trio Solisti (Bridge)
Faust/Melnikov/Queyras (HM)

Usually I reach for the first two; they have lots of fire and zest.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Friends, give me your Dumky. 

I've whittled my Dumkies down to this one, and I'm a happy camper:




[asin]B000CC4W14[/asin]

[TheGSMoeller]

No particular order:
Guarneri Trio Prague (Praga)
Trio Solisti (Bridge)
Faust/Melnikov/Queyras (HM)

Usually I reach for the first two; they have lots of fire and zest.

I've whittled my Dumkies down to this one, and I'm a happy camper:




[asin]B000CC4W14[/asin]

Thank you, DD & Brian!
I'm not sure what to think about the MaKimAx performance yet, I hear a lot of terrific melodies and harmonies, but I don't feel that distinctive Dvorak quality. I know this incredible music is performed better. It's like watching Jack Nicholson portraying The Joker, great material, but I know it can be done better...Oh, thank you, Heath Ledger! 

[Que]

Friends, give me your Dumky. 

What is your favorite performance of the Op. 90 Piano Trio?

[asin]B000065DXX[/asin]

[asin]B000FIHZPA[/asin]

Q

[mc ukrneal]

[asin]B000065DXX[/asin]

[asin]B000FIHZPA[/asin]

Q

Excellent choices!

[TheGSMoeller]

[asin]B000065DXX[/asin]

[asin]B000FIHZPA[/asin]

Q

Thanks, Q!

[Brahmsian]

Listening to these excellent performance of the tone poems: 

[asin]B0032Z1IG0[/asin]

[North Star]

Listening to these excellent performance of the tone poems: 

Great pieces, Ray! Just the other day I listened to Neumann's recordings of them, and the 6th & 7th symphonies. I don't know though if I will ever manage to listen to the earlier symphonies again. 

[Brahmsian]

Great pieces, Ray! Just the other day I listened to Neumann's recordings of them, and the 6th & 7th symphonies. I don't know though if I will ever manage to listen to the earlier symphonies again. 

Oh, I do hope you change your mind.  The 4th has long been my favourite symphony of Antonin.   

[Brahmsian]

I believe it is true when some say that Dvorak's 6th Symphony is like a sister-work/sister-companion to Brahms' 2nd Symphony.  Regardless, the Dvo 6th is great (paging Greg Moeller). 

FYI - Listening to Pesek/Czech Philharmonic recording. 

[North Star]

Oh, I do hope you change your mind.  The 4th has long been my favourite symphony of Antonin.   

I think I will, at least some of them, e.g. the 4th. I just tried the 1st earlier and it wasn't pleasant..

[Brahmsian]

I think I will, at least some of them, e.g. the 4th. I just tried the 1st earlier and it wasn't pleasant..

I hope you will (especially the 4th).  To me, it may be one of the most lyrical Romantic Era symphonies ever composed (at least one that does not get enough mention).

[Madiel]

I think I will, at least some of them, e.g. the 4th. I just tried the 1st earlier and it wasn't pleasant..

I'm rapidly learning that there is a big, big difference between early Dvorak such as the 1st symphony, and slightly later works. The earliest stuff rambles badly in my experience (the first few string quartets), but by around 1874 he gets his act together in a big way.

In fact, one major Dvorak site cites Symphony No.4 as the first representative of the new (and much improved) style.

On a not unrelated point, I really wish we could all go back to the opus numbers that Dvorak and assigned and start using them, not the horrible mess that his publisher Simrock created. It's evident from various sources that a very large number of Dvorak's scores are extant and have opus numbers clearly inscribed on them, along with dates of composition.

The Burghauser numbers are quite good, but one thing that annoys me about them is that they seem to be based on when on a different principle to Dvorak's own numbering. Dvorak's numbers are based on when he started a work, but Burghauser's are based on when the work was finished.

[Brian]

I don't know though if I will ever manage to listen to the earlier symphonies again. 

Oh, do reconsider!

The First Symphony is simply not good, my least favorite Dvorak work, and I have nothing to say in its defense. I could forgive its length and verbosity if it weren't so self-serious, full of dramatic posturing and grandiose intent.

The Second Symphony is long and chatty, but instead of being gloomy, it's bucolic and rustic and fun. That makes the first two movements a lot easier listen, even though they're far from perfect. But - this is something I have argued on this forum for years - the scherzo and finale are Dvorak's declaration of independence. In these final 20 minutes, he finally puts together everything we recognize as vintage Dvorak: great tunes, great wind solos, churning rhythms, irresistible momentum, Czech folk spirit. Still not "perfect", but man are these two movements a big, flashing neon sign of what was to come.

The Third Symphony is, to me, a major work. I'm not in love with the first movement, which has only one theme and gets repetitive. But the feverish funeral march is a clear (Czech romantic) predecessor to Elgar's Second, and the joyous finale is hard not to like. This is my personal favorite and most-listened-to of the early symphonies, including even No. 5.

The Fourth Symphony is the most clearly Wagnerian in language (that slow movement!), and represents Dvorak's mastery of the classic "romantic symphony" narrative. You know: Mendelssohn, Gade, Raff, Glazunov, Svendsen, all those guys. Of that tradition, I'd rank Dvorak's Fourth very highly indeed. The scherzo is a firecracker. All four of these early works really demand a sharp, rhythmically tight, driven interpretation by an exciting conductor, but the Fourth's scherzo does especially, because it pops.

And then, just like orfeo said, we reach the turning point. For me the big year is 1875, when Dvorak wrote his lovely string quintet with bass (Op. 77), the Nocturne in B, first piano trio, first piano quartet, string serenade, and Fifth Symphony. What a year - and by the end of 1879, he had added another piano trio, the Symphonic Variations, Stabat Mater, wind serenade, sextet, String Quartets 8-10, a set of eight Slavonic Dances, and a first draft of the violin concerto. So 1874-5 are the turning point, but there were clear flashes of the greatness to come audible all the way back in the second half of the Second Symphony.

Great recordings of 2-4 include Suitner, Rowicki, and Anguelov, and for No. 4 I can also recommend Hengelbrock.

My personal list of Dvorak symphonies, from favorite to least, would be 8, 7, 6, 3, 9, 2, 4, 5, 1.