Dvorak's Den

[Mirror Image]

Hmm. I've been eyeing a Naxos 2-disc set which has the Slavonic Dances, Slavonic Rhapsodies and the earlyish Rhapsody in A minor.

I believe it's the same recordings as in that larger box - Zdenek Kosler for the Slavonic Dances and op.45 Rhapsodies, Libor Pesek for the Rhapsody in A minor, so it's a pity that the Slavonic Dances side of it isn't getting much of a thumbs up. Though the other disc is still probably one I can get separately.

I'm surprised you don't go for the Supraphon sets or am I mistaken and you already own them?

[Madiel]

I'm surprised you don't go for the Supraphon sets or am I mistaken and you already own them?

As is usual with me, I'm not especially inclined to acquire sets with too many double-ups in terms of repertoire. The Naxos double CD was of interest because it would fill specific gaps in the works that I own.

I'm interested in the Supraphon sets but, for example, the set that would give me the op.45 Rhapsodies and the Slavonic Dances would also give me double-ups on the (orchestral versions of) the Legends and the Czech and American Suites, plus yet another Cello Concerto.  And it seems the Rhapsody in A minor isn't in any of the Supraphon boxes, which is disappointing - I suspect that's what led me to the Naxos recording in the first place.

That amount of double-ups is not actually too bad in the scheme of things, but the other question is whether the performances are consistently among the best available. I don't know in that particular case... I haven't seen a review of the full box, but I have seen slightly mixed comments about the performances of the op.45 Rhapsodies for example.

The fact is I almost never buy boxes that have a whole mix of recordings of different performers because it's rarely the case that they are consistently attractive. The Supraphon box of choral works went onto the shopping list because it fulfilled many criteria: 1. No double-ups at all. 2. A lot of repertoire I am interested in, both the better known works and the less well known ones. 3. A number of positive reviews, at most mild criticism of one recording in the box.

I don't expect this to make lots of sense to you, as I'm well aware that your approach to purchasing frequently involves buying 2 or 3 performances of the same work at the same time. This is something I simply would never do. My shopping list starts with a list of works I'm trying to add to my library - I want one of those, and one of those, and one of those, and one of those, and...  The concept of "I want another one of those" only comes up if I'm specifically disappointed in a recording I already have, and most of the time I'm working hard to avoid that happening.

[Mirror Image]

As is usual with me, I'm not especially inclined to acquire sets with too many double-ups in terms of repertoire. The Naxos double CD was of interest because it would fill specific gaps in the works that I own.

I'm interested in the Supraphon sets but, for example, the set that would give me the op.45 Rhapsodies and the Slavonic Dances would also give me double-ups on the (orchestral versions of) the Legends and the Czech and American Suites, plus yet another Cello Concerto.  And it seems the Rhapsody in A minor isn't in any of the Supraphon boxes, which is disappointing - I suspect that's what led me to the Naxos recording in the first place.

That amount of double-ups is not actually too bad in the scheme of things, but the other question is whether the performances are consistently among the best available. I don't know in that particular case... I haven't seen a review of the full box, but I have seen slightly mixed comments about the performances of the op.45 Rhapsodies for example.

The fact is I almost never buy boxes that have a whole mix of recordings of different performers because it's rarely the case that they are consistently attractive. The Supraphon box of choral works went onto the shopping list because it fulfilled many criteria: 1. No double-ups at all. 2. A lot of repertoire I am interested in, both the better known works and the less well known ones. 3. A number of positive reviews, at most mild criticism of one recording in the box.

I don't expect this to make lots of sense to you, as I'm well aware that your approach to purchasing frequently involves buying 2 or 3 performances of the same work at the same time. This is something I simply would never do. My shopping list starts with a list of works I'm trying to add to my library - I want one of those, and one of those, and one of those, and one of those, and...  The concept of "I want another one of those" only comes up if I'm specifically disappointed in a recording I already have, and most of the time I'm working hard to avoid that happening.

You're approach certainly makes sense to me. It's me who is the one who actually doesn't make any sense. It's interesting you mentioned the Slavonic Rhapsodies recording in this Surpaphon set (w/ Bohumil Gregor conducting the Czech Philharmonic) as I'm actually a bit underwhelmed with the performances. I think the music itself is lovely, but I they need more of a push from the conductor. I mean these are competent readings, but nothing more. I didn't feel the music like I do when Neumann, Kertesz, Mackerras, or Harnoncourt conducts. I'll probably be seeking alternative performances of these works without a doubt.

P.S. I wasn't aware that Rhapsody in A minor was missing from this Supraphon set.

[Madiel]

P.S. I wasn't aware that Rhapsody in A minor was missing from this Supraphon set.

Well, unless I've read the listings wrongly. I haven't spotted it in the orchestral boxes.

It's a fairly early work (op.14) and mightn't actually be all that great compared to Dvorak's orchestral masterpieces, but the Naxos move of combining it with the 3 later rhapsodies is an appealing one.

[Jo498]

I have the Naxos with the rhapsodies opp. 45 and 14. I was not impressed; it is an early (1987/88) Naxos production and the sound is not very good. Neither is the Slovak Philharmonic as good as the Czech Philharmonic. I am not very familiar with these pieces or their discography but these recordings would probably not be a good reason to get a twofer or larger box. One would hope that there were better recordings of those pieces out there.

While I have only heard 3 volumes or so, I'd recommend the Naxos recordings with the (new) Vlach quartet. If one already has the better known pieces and does not want to go for a big box of string quartets, they are perfect to fill the gaps (and they do hold their own in the late famous pieces, too). The disc with the piano quartets is also very good but the smallish Supraphon box with quintets/quartets is so good and probably fairly cheap that the Naxos is only second choice.

[mc ukrneal]

I have this version. I remember it being good, but I haven't really listened to it recently. Will try to give a listen and report back.
[asin]B00000DRGF[/asin]
It also has the suite for large orchestra, which is another piece I did not have...

[Madiel]

I have the Naxos with the rhapsodies opp. 45 and 14. I was not impressed; it is an early (1987/88) Naxos production and the sound is not very good. Neither is the Slovak Philharmonic as good as the Czech Philharmonic. I am not very familiar with these pieces or their discography but these recordings would probably not be a good reason to get a twofer or larger box. One would hope that there were better recordings of those pieces out there.

I did see an... Amazon customer review I think it was... criticising the sound.

These days I would sample something using iTunes or Deezer before buying to test for things like that as well as the performances. However, choices for these particular works are not thick on the ground.

EDIT: I just found this review of perhaps the most modern version available, with direct comparisons to the Naxos version. Again the sound on Naxos for op.45 gets a bit of a negative. But the impression I get from this and some other reviews is that the performances on Naxos tend to get the thumbs up. http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Feb/Dvorak_rhapsodies_UP01712031.htm

PS Also, quite a few people do seem to like the Naxos Slavonic Dances... I really must listen for myself.

[Mirror Image]

I have curious question for anyone that owns the Supraphon set Orchestral Works & Concertos, does the booklet that accompanies the set have missing pages? I just noticed in my set that pages 1-8 are missing. Strange. I contacted the seller I bought this set from to see if they have a full booklet they could send me, but haven't heard anything from them yet.

[Brian]

I did see an... Amazon customer review I think it was... criticising the sound.

More or less all Naxos Slovak recordings have impaired sound, including some recorded post-2005. I think the engineering team, still occasionally under employ, is responsible; there's a watery reverb and lack of clarity, with brass instruments especially sounding weak. I remember my rage when I first heard the Gunzenhauser Symphony No. 7 and realized the first movement didn't have timpani - they were simply drowned out, or something.

If sound is an important concern, I'd probably forget about the whole Gunzenhauser cycle - even the early symphony performances are greatly exceeded by Rowicki. But the Polish stuff with Wit sounds OK (Natl Radio SO) or great (Warsaw PO), and that Slavonic Rhapsodies disc does still fill a big hole in the catalogue, like it or not. Rhapsody No. 3, plus a few other rarities, are here:

[Mirror Image]

Yeah, I'll probably just pass on the Naxos box as I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to audio quality. In other news, outside of the Supraphon sets, I really want to start exploring this Kertesz set:

[Madiel]

Yeah, I'll probably just pass on the Naxos box as I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to audio quality. In other news, outside of the Supraphon sets, I really want to start exploring this Kertesz set:

Pretty widely praised. I don't have the whole thing, I have a 2-CD version with symphonies 4 to 6 and a few smaller pieces. I think these recordings have been repackaged about 7 different ways over the years.

You mention audio quality: I'm not totally finicky but I do have some issues with some early recordings, and I was pretty pleased with the sound of the Kertesz performances. They're from 1963 to 1966 and while they wouldn't fool you put alongside the very latest recordings, they're all very listenable.

[amw]

For some reason they seem to be about 5dB louder than the rest of my collection though, which may be the remasterers getting caught up in the Loudness War™

[Mirror Image]

Pretty widely praised. I don't have the whole thing, I have a 2-CD version with symphonies 4 to 6 and a few smaller pieces. I think these recordings have been repackaged about 7 different ways over the years.

You mention audio quality: I'm not totally finicky but I do have some issues with some early recordings, and I was pretty pleased with the sound of the Kertesz performances. They're from 1963 to 1966 and while they wouldn't fool you put alongside the very latest recordings, they're all very listenable.

I appreciate your feedback here, orfeo. I don't mean to come across as someone who values audio quality over a performance as there's been many performances on record where the audio quality was only serviceable but the performance was so incredible that I easily overlooked the sonic limitations. Yes, this Kertesz is widely praised. I think having the Kertesz and Neumann will be sufficient enough and will probably not seek out other symphony sets. What's nice about this Collector's Edition is Decca have housed all of Kertesz's Dvorak under one roof. My only regret is he didn't record The Wild Dove, Op. 110. A shame as he conducted the other Erben-inspired symphonic poems.

[Mirror Image]

One problem I do have with the Kertesz set is Decca split-up many of the symphonies. Like in order to finish a symphony, you have to go to the next disc. This is the only annoyance I have with the box though.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I have curious question for anyone that owns the Supraphon set Orchestral Works & Concertos, does the booklet that accompanies the set have missing pages? I just noticed in my set that pages 1-8 are missing. Strange. I contacted the seller I bought this set from to see if they have a full booklet they could send me, but haven't heard anything from them yet.

You might know this already but there is a DDD Neumann set from the mid 1980s which might be OOP right now...

[Jo498]

Just now listening to the above-mentioned Naxos Rhapsodies disc. I am only listening through smallish desktop monitor speakers but the sound is actually o.k. and they are quite enthusiastic performances (I don't know the music well enough to comment further) I do not recall what I disliked about the sound the last time, maybe I was listening with headphones or a better system.
The (single) Slavonic dances with Dorati was one of my first two dozen or so classical discs (or maybe it was originally my brother's, I think my father gave them to us as presents, in any case, it ended up in my collection ). This is sonically very good.

I was actually going to ask about the czech suite and the american suite as I do not have them. There are probably not too many alternatives to Dorati... (don't really want to get that twofer because I need to keep abovementioned Slavonic dances for sentimental reasons).

[Brian]

I was actually going to ask about the czech suite and the american suite as I do not have them. There are probably not too many alternatives to Dorati... (don't really want to get that twofer because I need to keep abovementioned Slavonic dances for sentimental reasons).

I just listened to a very good Czech Suite with Wit on Naxos but my suggestion is to go for Thomas Hengelbrock's new Sony disc with (I think) the NDR orchestra - it is coupled with one of the best, most dramatic, most rhythmically precise Fourth Symphony recordings. (Wit's disc may fill some gaps in your collection, however: Hero's Song, Hussite Overture, Festival March.) For the American Suite, I've only heard Tilson Thomas and Yablonsky, the latter of which is not a favorite at all, but honestly I kinda prefer the original piano version.

[Mirror Image]

You might know this already but there is a DDD Neumann set from the mid 1980s which might be OOP right now...

Thanks for the suggestion. My dad actually owns that later Neumann cycle. I should listen to it. Do you know how it compares with his earlier cycle?

[Sergeant Rock]

...but my suggestion is to go for Thomas Hengelbrock's new Sony disc with (I think) the NDR orchestra - it is coupled with one of the best, most dramatic, most rhythmically precise Fourth Symphony recordings.

And only 6.99 at Amazon DE:

https://www.amazon.de/Dvor%C3%A1k-Sinfonie-Nr-B%C3%B6hmische-Suite/dp/B008KHAQYA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466260908&sr=8-1&keywords=dvorak+hengelbrock

Grabbed a copy for myself 

Sarge

[Scion7]

I have this version. I remember it being good, but I haven't really listened to it recently. Will try to give a listen and report back.
It also has the suite for large orchestra, which is another piece I did not have...

I have that one. Centaur has always put out quality releases, IMO.