Dvorak's Den

Madiel · July 03, 2016, 05:38:02 AM

The last day or two of conversation, I've been wondering whether or not you are all talking about the same Neumann. It's not at all clear.

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 05:40:00 AM

Quote from: orfeo on July 03, 2016, 05:38:02 AM
The last day or two of conversation, I've been wondering whether or not you are all talking about the same Neumann. It's not at all clear.

I'm talking about Neumann's first cycle. He has two cycles.

Madiel · July 03, 2016, 05:47:40 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2016, 05:40:00 AM
I'm talking about Neumann's first cycle. He has two cycles.

I know he has two cycles. Isn't that exactly the point of what I just said?

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 05:48:55 AM

Quote from: orfeo on July 03, 2016, 05:47:40 AM
I know he has two cycles. Isn't that exactly the point of what I just said?

Just clarifying that I'm talking about Neumann's first cycle. That's all.

Madiel · July 03, 2016, 05:52:47 AM

Yes, well which one you've been talking about is tolerably clear. But when I say "whether you are all talking about the same Neumann", I'm not talking about your posts, I'm talking about the conversation that's been going on. I'm not suggesting you've been talking at cross-purposes with yourself, I'm suggesting people might have been talking at cross-purposes with each other.

Which is almost exactly the same suggestion you yourself made less than an hour earlier, so I'm not sure what the point of your reply is. It's you who referred to the existence of two cycles and suggested that cilgwyn might be mentioning the other one. So you're actually "talking about" both of them. I know which one you own.

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 05:57:48 AM

Allow me for another clarification: Neumann's later cycle on Supraphon has symphonies that are split-up onto two different discs throughout the set. Cilgwyn mentioned how he disliked this, so that's when I pointed him to the Neumann's first cycle (the purple box), which doesn't suffer this kind of problem. Are you still confused?

Madiel · July 03, 2016, 06:06:22 AM

Not at all. I'm discussing a couple of days worth of conversation which involved other people besides your good self. Are you still confused about what I'm saying? Just because your post was immediately before mine Does. Not. Make. This. About. You.

For God's sake, Mirror Image, why are you making this difficult? What I had in mind as having been liable to confusion wasn't your contribution at all, and now what I actually wanted to point to is lost and buried under a useless exchange because you insist on "clarifying" repeatedly something I wasn't confused about in the first place.

If anyone can be arsed to look back that far, it wasn't clear whether Sergeant Rock and cilgwyn were talking about the same cycle.

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 06:17:08 AM

Quote from: orfeo on July 03, 2016, 06:06:22 AM
Not at all. I'm discussing a couple of days worth of conversation which involved other people besides your good self. Are you still confused about what I'm saying? Just because your post was immediately before mine Does. Not. Make. This. About. You.

For God's sake, Mirror Image, why are you making this difficult? What I had in mind as having been liable to confusion wasn't your contribution at all, and now what I actually wanted to point to is lost and buried under a useless exchange because you insist on "clarifying" repeatedly something I wasn't confused about in the first place.

If anyone can be arsed to look back that far, it wasn't clear whether Sergeant Rock and cilgwyn were talking about the same cycle.

You're such a jolly good bloke. Sorry, my medication hadn't kicked in yet. $:-\$

Sergeant Rock · July 03, 2016, 06:20:04 AM

Quote from: orfeo on July 03, 2016, 06:06:22 AM
If anyone can be arsed to look back that far, it wasn't clear whether Sergeant Rock and cilgwyn were talking about the same cycle.

cilgwyn said:

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 01, 2016, 01:54:41 AM
It is nice to see that there are no breaks in the symphonies,where you have to put on another cd to hear the remainder. Very annoying!. This put me off the previous sets.

So I think we were talking about the same boxes (the purple analogue vs the earlier digital box where some of the symphonies are broken between discs). Since I mentioned the inclusion of tone poems and overtures, he must've known which box I was referring to. I can't be sure, though, if he knew (or knows) that they are different symphony cycles.

Sarge

Madiel · July 03, 2016, 06:28:28 AM

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 03, 2016, 06:20:04 AM
(the purple analogue vs the earlier digital box where some of the symphonies are broken between discs).

See, this is the kind of thing that causes confusion. This could read as if you're talking about two different presentations of the same recording. You're not. You're talking about two entirely different recordings.

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 06:33:39 AM

The only thing I'm confused about is orfeo's confusion.

Sergeant Rock · July 03, 2016, 06:41:22 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2016, 06:33:39 AM
The only thing I'm confused about is orfeo's confusion.

Me too. I give up.

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 06:43:30 AM

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 03, 2016, 06:41:22 AM
Me too. I give up.

We'll just blame cilgwyn and call it a day and pretend none of this ever happened. 0:)

Sergeant Rock · July 03, 2016, 07:09:07 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2016, 06:43:30 AM
We'll just blame cilgwyn and call it a day and pretend none of this ever happened. 0:)

Just in case cilgwyn is confused: there are two different cycles, one analogue, one digital. I recommended the former.

The analogue recordings with the symphonies (none split between discs), tone poems and overtures are in this box:

[asin] B0077DDWEE[/asin]

The digital recordings with just the symphonies are in this box:

[asin]B00008HCPE[/asin]

Sarge

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 07:11:54 AM

Okay...now I'm confused.

J/k, Sarge.

Speaking of Neumann's second cycle, I haven't heard it, but my dad owns it. What do you make of the performances? I loved his analogue cycle. I'm wondering if they have that same kind of energy?

Sergeant Rock · July 03, 2016, 07:18:48 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2016, 07:11:54 AM
Speaking of Neumann's second cycle, I haven't heard it, but my dad owns it. What do you make of the performances? I loved his analogue cycle. I'm wondering if they have that same kind of energy?

I have not heard it (the digital). Just know of it from reviews.

Sarge

cilgwyn · July 03, 2016, 07:28:13 AM

I was Sarge!

Thanks! I'm afraid I didn't know that he had made two complete cycles. I just looked for a Neumann cycle at the time and I saw that some of the symphonies were split between two cds. I find this a bit annoying,so I decided to give the recordings a miss. I must admit I didn't really look into it any further. If I had the DDD on the box might have provided me with a clue. It would have been surprising if someone who had been conducting as long as Neumann hadn't had more than one crack of the whip at one of their greatest composers. So the purple box set consists of an earlier analogue cycle! Okay,now I know. Apologies for any confusion caused by my post! Everythings okay now here,I hope?!! (Gulp!)

Mirror Image · July 03, 2016, 07:40:02 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 03, 2016, 07:28:13 AM
I was Sarge! Thanks! I'm afraid I didn't know that he had made two complete cycles. I just looked for a Neumann cycle at the time and I saw that some of the symphonies were split between two cds. I find this a bit annoying,so I decided to give the recordings a miss. I must admit I didn't really look into it any further. If I had the DDD on the box might have provided me with a clue. It would have been surprising if someone who had been conducting as long as Neumann hadn't had more than one crack of the whip at one of their greatest composers. So the purple box set consists of an earlier analogue cycle! Okay,now I know. Apologies for any confusion caused by my post! Everythings okay now here,I hope?!! (Gulp!)

You should definitely hear this analogue cycle, cilgwyn! Right up your alley.

mjmosca · July 04, 2016, 03:37:40 AM

It would be difficult for anyone not to like Dvorak- a superb melodic craftsman, excellent grasp of structure and wonderful orchestration! One of his works that I have really come to love is "The Golden Spinning Wheel" - crazy story, but who cares! Dvorak transforms it into a magnificent sonic experience. I have the Jarvi recording, which is splendid. I often find Jarvi too fast, but he seems perfect in this (and the other symphonic poems.

I don't know the early symphonies, however. Any input would be appreciated. thank you!

Mirror Image · July 04, 2016, 12:09:28 PM

Quote from: mjmosca on July 04, 2016, 03:37:40 AM
It would be difficult for anyone not to like Dvorak- a superb melodic craftsman, excellent grasp of structure and wonderful orchestration! One of his works that I have really come to love is "The Golden Spinning Wheel" - crazy story, but who cares! Dvorak transforms it into a magnificent sonic experience. I have the Jarvi recording, which is splendid. I often find Jarvi too fast, but he seems perfect in this (and the other symphonic poems.

I don't know the early symphonies, however. Any input would be appreciated. thank you!

I'd say get the Symphonic Works box set on Supraphon (the purple box). For me, Neumann beats Jarvi in every aspect of Dvorak's music, but, of course, YMMV.