Fresh Outbreak of Religion-Bashing Threads

[Brian]

What do you mean with "something the Jews did"? That's a quote from the Bible...

Well but clearly only the New Testament matters 

[Lilas Pastia]

I don't think it's merely for entertainment. Religions lead people to believe  (...)

Is is not the need to believe that leads to religions ?

I mean, how lopsided can one's reasonings become? Has the effect predated its cause??

[lisa needs braces]

I'm not religious myself, but I realize that a lot of people derive a sense of meaning and purpose from religion, and as long as that religion is kept personal and generally harmless, I see no need to bash it. I think we secularists should combat those elements of religion that hold society back but, to me at least, this whole "religion is a cancer" movement seems a tad inhumane. Religion has been around as long as there have been humans--and we aren't really going to be any happier without it.

[Iconito]

Is is not the need to believe that leads to religions ?

I mean, how lopsided can one's reasonings become? Has the effect predated its cause??

I’m not sure of what you mean... Are you saying that the need to believe is what leads people to religions in the first place, so the phrase “Religions lead people to believe [...]” is somehow flawed? If that is the case, let me set a short illustration:

1. One person rushes into a Church yelling “Please! Please! I need to believe! Give me something to believe!”
2. Some good priest teaches him a bunch of things he will believe (and a bunch of things he will do) And that’s it. Now we can say “Religions lead people to believe and do a number of things” without fear.

Most of the time it doesn’t happen this way, of course. Most religious people just happened to be born in a religious home, and they were taught those things before they could even spell “need to believe”.

[Maciek]

What do you mean with “something the Jews did”? That’s a quote from the Bible...

Not that I'm dying to join the discussion but that quote is taken our of context. (BTW, it's Deuteronomy 13:13-17 not 13:12-16.)

[Joe_Campbell]

Most of the time it doesn't happen this way, of course. Most religious people just happened to be born in a religious home, and they were taught those things before they could even spell "need to believe".

I'm not sure I agree with this. Do you have any substantiation? Or is this one of those infinite regression situations?

[david johnson]

What do you mean with "something the Jews did"? That's a quote from the Bible...

...and the bible does contain history and the jews did the deed...there where no christians around during the old testament era.  why does that need clarification?
how does the bible justify the inquisition?

dj

[david johnson]

Well but clearly only the New Testament matters 

since a christian is bound to a new covenant (rather than the older law of moses), the nt does take precedence regarding faith and practice.
however, i believe the statement 'clearly only the New Testament matters' is a misunderstanding.

dj

[71 dB]

You have never wasted an opportunity to react to 71 dB “nonsense” when he claimed Elgar is the greatest Composer ever (among many equally audacious claims). Are your reactions merely for entertainment? I won’t deny that there might be some fun for you in bashing 71dB, but you won’t deny that there is a genuine annoyance in your posts. You know he’s wrong, and you have to tell him he’s wrong. Now try to picture The First Church of Elgar, with millions of 71 dBs... How are you feeling? If this sounds ridiculous, try to understand that it’s not one bit less ridiculous than religions are for the average non-religious-person.

Surprising to see myself, an atheist, been talked about in this thread. I truly admire Elgar's art and I believe his music is among the finest ever written. Why is my claim so ridiculous to you? Many have said they enjoy Elgar's music so what is the problem? Is Elgar's music good or not? If you think Elgar's music is very good but not the best you should react this way: "Hey, I don't totally agree with 71 dB but I can understand his opinion because Elgar is pretty good." Instead, people tend to react like this: "What 71 dB says it total BS." For the latter reaction to be reasonable there should be an objective method, a mathematical formula, showing Elgar is far from the greatest. I am not aware of such calculations. Let me also remind that people on this forum do not have a consensus about the greatest composer, we have only many subjective opinions. My opinion is just one opinion among others and I wish it was just as respected.

[greg]

I confused the bookstore clerk today by purchasing C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, the Dalai Lama's Universe in a Single Atom and Christopher Hitchens' Portable Atheist on one ticket. 

LOL!!! 

[drogulus]

I'm not religious myself, but I realize that a lot of people derive a sense of meaning and purpose from religion, and as long as that religion is kept personal and generally harmless, I see no need to bash it. I think we secularists should combat those elements of religion that hold society back but, to me at least, this whole "religion is a cancer" movement seems a tad inhumane. Religion has been around as long as there have been humans--and we aren't really going to be any happier without it.

    If people derive meaning and purpose in a harmful way, that's a reason to object, and that's leaving aside the fairly important consideration that it's usually better to keep enough of your wits about you to hold the hucksters and bullies at bay. If you are prone to believe things on scant evidence, the general rule should be to keep from doing so rather than just plunging in.

   

? something the jews did justifies the inquisition ?
it would be good for you to reclaim your br bible and read it for comprehension, wouldn't hurt harris to do so either.

dj

    What do you mean? What about these massacres is misunderstood?

[Bunny]

Right. So what if your delusional idiot neighbor is an atheist/agnostic?  Who has a compulsive urge to vent his personal problems with his private caricature of "religion" at every turn?

So what if your neighbor is a delusional, idiotic, proselytizing Christian who isn't happy unless everyone conforms to his view of God and the universe? 

[Brian]

David Johnson,

Matthew 5:17-19  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Surely even as the New Testament takes precedent, the Old is not to be discarded entirely (as some of my Christian friends do)?

LOL!!! 

Glad somebody noticed!    I thought this thread was getting too serious. 

[Brian]

So what if your neighbor is a delusional, idiotic, proselytizing Christian who isn't happy unless everyone conforms to his view of God and the universe? 

Well, at least atheists won't send you to hell. 

[drogulus]

   

Well, at least atheists won't send you to hell. 

     Or to "Religion-Bashing Threads". Clever how they do that...maybe we're being rope-a-doped! Do you think? 

     Maybe we should start our own Atheist-Bashing Threads, as a kind of homage.

[Brian]

   
     Or to "Religion-Bashing Threads". Clever how they do that...maybe we're being rope-a-doped! Do you think? 

Yeah, the only threads I can think of that they reacted to are the Einstein thread and a bunch of polls that had no particularly atheistic/religion-bashing slant to them...

     Maybe we should start our own Atheist-Bashing Threads, as a kind of homage.

That's a great idea! 

[uffeviking]

It's so tedious to have to repeat statements already made:

] Re: Fresh Outbreak of Religion-Bashing Threads
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 04:08:05 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about NOT bashing anybody/anything? Ignore, tolerate, debate intelligently in case you have nothing better to do, as has been said above: Listen to classical music and then log on to GMG and discuss what you heard. Try it, you might like it!   

uffeviking

[Keemun]

It’s no fun when your neighbour is a delusional idiot.

So what if your delusional idiot neighbor is an atheist/agnostic? 

So what if your neighbor is a delusional, idiotic, proselytizing Christian who isn't happy unless everyone conforms to his view of God and the universe? 

Delusional idiots come in all forms, including religious, agnostic and atheist.  I find them all equally annoying.  But I also realize that it's absurd to try to change them.  Trying to do so would be like me trying to teach my dog to climb a tree. . . it would keep me busy, but it wouldn't accomplish anything.

[Iconito]

Not that I'm dying to join the discussion but that quote is taken our of context. (BTW, it's Deuteronomy 13:13-17 not 13:12-16.)

Damn Sam Harris! He will do anything to win the discussion! 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Do you have any substantiation? Or is this one of those infinite regression situations?

Well, J... I confess I haven’t got any statistics on this... If you think most people join the Church at age 18 or above, go ahead...

...and the bible does contain history and the jews did the deed...there where no christians around during the old testament era.  why does that need clarification?
how does the bible justify the inquisition?

dj

It would be something like this:

1. The Bible is the word of God.
2. The Bible says kill the heretics.
3. Someone goes ahead and begins killing heretics.

Sorry if it was confusing.

Surprising to see myself, an atheist, been talked about in this thread. I truly admire Elgar's art and I believe his music is among the finest ever written. Why is my claim so ridiculous to you? Many have said they enjoy Elgar's music so what is the problem? Is Elgar's music good or not? If you think Elgar's music is very good but not the best you should react this way: "Hey, I don't totally agree with 71 dB but I can understand his opinion because Elgar is pretty good." Instead, people tend to react like this: "What 71 dB says it total BS." For the latter reaction to be reasonable there should be an objective method, a mathematical formula, showing Elgar is far from the greatest. I am not aware of such calculations. Let me also remind that people on this forum do not have a consensus about the greatest composer, we have only many subjective opinions. My opinion is just one opinion among others and I wish it was just as respected.

I’m sorry for having used you as an example in my post. It was something like “Listen, Karl: as you do with 71dB's claims, the atheists do with religion's claims”, but I didn’t mean to attack you in any way. Again, I’m sorry.

[Renfield]

Well, at least atheists won't send you to hell. 

That made me chortle, thanks.

Finally, full justification of my skimming through a thread in this forum with "religion" as part of its title and/or main subject!