The Unassuming Masterpiece

Started by Operahaven, May 17, 2008, 04:48:08 PM

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What are your feelings towards Debussy's 'Prelude To The Afternoon of A Faun'

10
9 (23.7%)
9
3 (7.9%)
8
8 (21.1%)
7
4 (10.5%)
6
0 (0%)
5
2 (5.3%)
4
1 (2.6%)
3
1 (2.6%)
2
2 (5.3%)
1
8 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 25

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Kullervo

#40
May 19, 2008, 04:59:58 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 19, 2008, 01:55:13 AM
Humid, sentimental, pretentious slop.

:o  ???  :'(

(poco) Sforzando

#41
May 19, 2008, 05:03:02 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 19, 2008, 01:55:13 AM
Some of his piano music is nice, but Debussy generally irritates/bores the hell out of me. Humid, sentimental, pretentious slop.

Humid in what way?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

DavidRoss

#42
May 19, 2008, 05:05:23 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 19, 2008, 01:55:13 AM
Some of his piano music is nice, but Debussy generally irritates/bores the hell out of me. Humid, sentimental, pretentious slop.
I can see "humid," and can understand how one could misclassify Debussy as "sentimental," but "pretentious?"  How then, I wonder, do you regard certain of his forebears and those who came after?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

(poco) Sforzando

#43
May 19, 2008, 05:10:32 AM
Quote from: DavidRoss on May 19, 2008, 05:05:23 AM
I can see "humid," and can understand how one could misclassify Debussy as "sentimental," but "pretentious?"  How then, I wonder, do you regard certain of his forebears and those who came after?

Either more pretentious, less pretentious, or the same.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

greg

#44
May 19, 2008, 05:53:15 AM
Quote from: Sforzando on May 19, 2008, 05:10:32 AM
Either more pretentious, less pretentious, or the same.
wow, that's very specific  ;D

Mark G. Simon

#45
May 19, 2008, 08:29:34 AM
famous quote

QuoteOne day a friend of his said to him "Claude, these Debussyites really annoy me." Debussy's response is illuminating: "Annoy you? They are killing me!" ...

(poco) Sforzando

#46
May 19, 2008, 08:38:51 AM
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on May 19, 2008, 05:53:15 AM
wow, that's very specific  ;D

I'm still having trouble with "humid," unless La Mer, Brouillards, and La Cathédrale Engloutie are what is meant.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Kullervo

#47
May 19, 2008, 08:50:25 AM
Quote from: Sforzando on May 19, 2008, 08:38:51 AM
I'm still having trouble with "humid," unless La Mer, Brouillards, and La Cathédrale Engloutie are what is meant.

And 'sentimental'. Compared to what? Webern?

I could understand the early pieces being called sentimental, but anything after about 1903-5, no.

MN Dave

#48
May 19, 2008, 08:55:09 AM
Quote from: Corey on May 19, 2008, 08:50:25 AM
And 'sentimental'. Compared to what? Webern?

I could understand the early pieces being called sentimental, but anything after about 1903-5, no.

I don't consider Debussy sentimental at all.

(poco) Sforzando

#49
May 19, 2008, 09:10:03 AM
Quote from: Corey on May 19, 2008, 08:50:25 AM
And 'sentimental'. Compared to what? Webern?

I could understand the early pieces being called sentimental, but anything after about 1903-5, no.

Don't forget "slop."
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Cato

#50
May 19, 2008, 09:23:16 AM
PINK HARP!  

$:)    $:)    $:)

We know you're in there!   $:)    $:)    $:)


Just put the faun down and come out with your plectrum up!   8)

Even if it is in public!   :o
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

J.Z. Herrenberg

#51
May 19, 2008, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: Cato on May 19, 2008, 09:23:16 AMJust put the faun down and come out with your plectrum up!

;D ;D
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Monsieur Croche

#52
May 19, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 19, 2008, 01:55:13 AM
Yes, I voted before reading the original post, and assumed 1 was strongly dislike. If I'd known, I would have voted lower >:D

Some of his piano music is nice, but Debussy generally irritates/bores the hell out of me. Humid, sentimental, pretentious slop.

No, not a big Scriabin fan either.

I can understand "humid", and I can see how in a poor performance Debussy may come across as somewhat of a mannerist (hence "pretentious"), but "sentimental" to me doesn't sound like an appropriate description of the music.

And how does Scriabin figure into the equation? I can't imagine mature Scriabin sounding "sentimental" either.

Quote from: Cato on May 19, 2008, 09:23:16 AM
PINK HARP!  

$:)    $:)    $:)

We know you're in there!   $:)    $:)    $:)


Just put the faun down and come out with your plectrum up!   8)

Even if it is in public!   :o

What a wonderfully subtle sense of humor, Cato - I have no idea what the "Pink Harp" bit is supposed to mean.

Gurn Blanston

#53
May 19, 2008, 04:53:38 PM
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on May 19, 2008, 04:37:31 PM

I have no idea what the "Pink Harp" bit is supposed to mean.

It is operahaven's former nom de guerre. :)

(we've been dealing with his eccentricities for a long, long time ;)  )

8)



----------------
Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker-Riccardo Muti - D.125 Symphony #2 in Bb-4th mvmt-Presto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

(poco) Sforzando

#54
May 19, 2008, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on May 19, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
And how does Scriabin figure into the equation? I can't imagine mature Scriabin sounding "sentimental" either.

Don't forget that humid, pretentious slop part.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

eyeresist

#55
May 19, 2008, 09:48:39 PM
Glad to see I've set a cat among the pigeons :D

By 'humid', I guess I meant 'sultry' in its negative aspect - kind-of overheated and oppressive.

By sentimental and pretentious, I meant - well, read what the composer said:

"a succession of scenes through which pass the desires and dreams of the faun in the heat of the afternoon. Then, tired of pursuing the timorous flight of nymphs and naiads, he succumbs to intoxicating sleep, in which he can finally realize his dreams of possession in universal Nature."

Pseudo-classical kitsch (which was quite popular at the time).

J.Z. Herrenberg

#56
May 19, 2008, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 19, 2008, 09:48:39 PM
By sentimental and pretentious, I meant - well, read what the composer said:

"a succession of scenes through which pass the desires and dreams of the faun in the heat of the afternoon. Then, tired of pursuing the timorous flight of nymphs and naiads, he succumbs to intoxicating sleep, in which he can finally realize his dreams of possession in universal Nature."

Pseudo-classical kitsch (which was quite popular at the time).

Yes, Mallarmé is a very popular poet.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

greg

#57
May 20, 2008, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 19, 2008, 04:53:38 PM
It is operahaven's former nom de guerre. :)

(we've been dealing with his eccentricities for a long, long time ;)  )

8)



----------------
Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker-Riccardo Muti - D.125 Symphony #2 in Bb-4th mvmt-Presto
he says he works 12-15 hours a day...... which obviously explains it all.

Operahaven

#58
May 21, 2008, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: val on May 19, 2008, 01:06:08 AMHowever, I don't think it is one of Debussy's best works.

It's not  one  of his best works ??

How can you say that Val ?

Debussy's  Faun  is an outstanding piece in his oeuvre and a landmark in the general history of music.

A veritable shrine of exquisiteness.
I worship Debussy's gentle revolution  -  Prelude To The Afternoon of A Faun  -  for its mostly carefree mood and its rich variety of exquisite sounds.

jochanaan

#59
May 21, 2008, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: Operahaven on May 21, 2008, 07:01:43 PM
It's not  one  of his best works ??

How can you say that Val ?...
He says it, Operahaven, because that's the way he feels, or so I assume.  If you ask for opinions, don't be surprised when you get a few. ;D
Imagination + discipline = creativity
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