Schubert's 9th Symphony - Recordings that you like

[Xenophanes]

I like this one very much for some reason, though a friend who is an orchestral musician thinks the first movement is too fast.  It swings. I even use it for a test CD.

Krips starts out rather slowly for my taste but gets better as it goes along.

[Gurn Blanston]

Last heard was Mackerass' with the OAE which I used to loathe but found quite - er - what's the word - enlightening?!

Isn't the Mackerras with the Scots? Or does he have another? It is the SCO on Teldec that I was thinking about, in any case.

On another topic:
Isn't this a case of a work which benefits greatly being performed in an idiomatic way? i.e. - by an Austrian or German orchestra? Which is not to say that any good group of professional musicians should be able to put the notes together, often in an artful manner. But the rhetorical and rhythmic internal patterns, the idiom if you will, would seem to me to benefit greatly from performance by a Central European orchestra. Which was why I started out with the SD in the first place, and was never disappointed.  What think you all?




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Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker-Riccardo Muti - D125 Symphony #2 in Bb - 2nd mvmt - Andante - Variations I-V

[hornteacher]

Isn't the Mackerras with the Scots? Or does he have another? It is the SCO on Teldec that I was thinking about, in any case.

Mackerras has several accounts, the best being with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra on Telarc.

[Gurn Blanston]

Mackerras has several accounts, the best being with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra on Telarc.

Ah yes, that's the one you recommended. What about it makes it superior? Just curious...   (I'm a big Mackerras fan, BTW, but I found him actually a bit too light in Brahms, that's why I wonder about this one.)



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Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker-Riccardo Muti - D.125 Symphony #2 in Bb-2nd mvmt-Andante-Variations I-V

[Bunny]

Ah yes, that's the one you recommended. What about it makes it superior? Just curious...   (I'm a big Mackerras fan, BTW, but I found him actually a bit too light in Brahms, that's why I wonder about this one.)




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Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker-Riccardo Muti - D.125 Symphony #2 in Bb-2nd mvmt-Andante-Variations I-V

Along with the Harnoncourt Schubert symphony set (probably my favorite), I also have two HIP recordings: MacKerras & the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment and Bruno Weil and The Classical Band.  The MacKerras has been rereleased by Arkivmusic (with notes) in it's later (ca. 2000) jacket.  The original recording dates from 1988.  The Bruno Weil recording can still be found. 

I have the HIP MacKerras and while it's okay, it's not the greatest performance.  I also have the Bruno Weil recording made with The Classical Band.  I don't know any other original instrument performances, but I'd love to find a really top quality one.

Re: Muti -- I heard him do the 9th with the WP during the 2006-7 season.  It was well done but nothing special when compared to the Barenboim/Chicago SO concert a few weeks before.  Muti never gets anything wrong but he doesn't take any risks either and the results are to my ears very conventional. 

[Que]

I have the HIP MacKerras and while it's okay, it's not the greatest performance.  I also have the Bruno Weil recording made with The Classical Band.  I don't know any other original instrument performances, but I'd love to find a really top quality one.

How about Jos van Immerseel with Anima Eterna?



Q

[Daverz]

Konwitschny with the Czech Phil.

[Hector]

I'd forgotten about the Munch and Krips, both highly recommended in their day.

Tradition dictated that the opening be taken slowly but, nowadays, conductors tend to keep to the same tempo.

Best go, now, I hear a rumbling from the North East.

If it were but Voldemor, only.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I'd forgotten about the Munch and Krips, both highly recommended in their day.

Tradition dictated that the opening be taken slowly but, nowadays, conductors tend to keep to the same tempo.

Best go, now, I hear a rumbling from the North East.

If it were but Voldemor, only.

I like the Munch a lot also. It also comes with an equally impressive 8th on the same disc as an added bonus.

I don't know about tradition but I think for the most part the introduction is taken at a 4/4 tempo such that when the alla breve allegro comes the metronome marking of the quarter note becomes the half note. It actually makes a lot of sense that way.

[Bunny]

How about Jos van Immerseel with Anima Eterna?



Q

I do believe I have that!    

Buried down in my collection which is partially in the new cd cabinet and partially in storage boxes.

Not all of us have the luxury of moving to a larger house as our collections eat up our space. 

When I ordered the new storage system I never dreamed of the chaos that would result from the transfer of the discs. 

[Que]

I do believe I have that!    

Well, now you know what to do for another good HIP performance! 

Or didn't it make much of an impression the first time around?

Q

[Bunny]

Well, now you know what to do for another good HIP performance! 

Or didn't it make much of an impression the first time around?

Q

It made an impression quite a while ago.  That set is far from new, and I haven't even thought about it lately. In fact, I'm only just beginning to get reacquainted with my collection. 

In any event, I'll try to dig it out and listen sometime very soon.

[hornteacher]

Ah yes, that's the one you recommended. What about it makes it superior? Just curious...   (I'm a big Mackerras fan, BTW, but I found him actually a bit too light in Brahms, that's why I wonder about this one.)

Mackerras is light in his Brahms cycle.  It was an intentional decision to recreate Brahms' original instrumentation at its first performance.  He explains his research in the liner notes.  I happen to enjoy it but I agree it isn't for everyone.

The Schubert is also historically accurate in that it uses the same instrumentation that was in its first performance, uses period strings and valveless horns, and after consulting Schubert's original score, Mackerras found an error in the modern printings regarding the tempo of the opening andante.  The result is in my opinion a very different but more "accurate" account of the symphony than what appears on most discs.  Again, however, not for those who are used to hearing it performed with larger groups.

[Lilas Pastia]

Mackerras is light in his Brahms cycle.  It was an intentional decision to recreate Brahms' original instrumentation at its first performance.  He explains his research in the liner notes.  I happen to enjoy it but I agree it isn't for everyone.

The Schubert is also historically accurate in that it uses the same instrumentation that was in its first performance, uses period strings and valveless horns, and after consulting Schubert's original score, Mackerras found an error in the modern printings regarding the tempo of the opening andante.  The result is in my opinion a very different but more "accurate" account of the symphony than what appears on most discs.  Again, however, not for those who are used to hearing it performed with larger groups.

Interesting. You mention it gives a more accurate view of the "symphony", and yet it pertains to the first movement's introduction only. What in particular makes it more accurate ? FWIW, the tempo for the introduction to I (and its transition to the main  Allegro) has been for decades a bone of contention among critics and musicologists, so I'm really curious to hear more about Mackerras' solution.

For my friend Gurn, to whom I gave a roundup of my findings regarding some Schubert 9 versions: Szell's Clevelands (EMI but esp. Sony) has been along for such a long time that I totally forgot to extol its virtues: make it step 1 or 2 of the podium 

Recently listened to: Solti's 1981 WP version (Decca).

In short: this is as good a modern interpretation as one is likely to hear, if without much 'face' . This is a term I sometimes use but so far failed to explain: it refers to a certain neutrality that is admirable as far as the letter of the score is concerned (or what I imagine it to be: I don't read music) but that doesn't translate into any specific interpretative or stylistic POV. Put simply:  it's technically excellent but soon fades from the memory. And yet, when browsing the shelves, it gives the impression of a disc of eminent value, even though memories of it remain vague at best. Have I gone full circle there?

Yes: it's one of the eminent items in the discography, but as fast as you can pronounce "Solti", you'll probably come up with half a dozen more interesting alternatives. Not to be belittled however is the unctuous yet commanding playing of the WP.

Apparently the 60s were a tense period between the WP and that conductor (they didn't take kindly to his rather shrill behaviour), but the 10 year interim helped mend fences and there was a notable change of attitude in their relationship. Whatever. That's musical journalism stuff . What I hear is the WP doing their thing without interference from any alien influence. IOW it's beautiful. Buy it for the inimitably stylish, drop-dead gorgeous playing and expert conducting (Solti had mellowed substantially by then, to good effect). And Decca's trademark Sofiensaal engineering is beauuutiful.

[Gurn Blanston]

AH, thanks for that, Lilas. Ultimately, I think the WP is (besides being my favorite orchestra) the band of choice for this work. It is just finding the ideal version that has eluded me thus far. I wasn't aware of the Solti, perhaps time to give it a try. 



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Listening to:
Wiener Philharmoniker - Riccardo Muti - D 417 Symphony #4 in c-1st mvmt - Adagio molto - Allegro vivace

[Lilas Pastia]

Beware of the Muti WP. It's even better played (strings are tummy-wobbing beautiful), but it's mechanistic and there are too many repeats

[Hollywood]

Ah, Schubert's 9th Symphony.  0:) I feel in love with the Andante con moto while watching the Austrian TV miniseries about Schubert called  "Mit meinen heissen Tränen" (1986). This second movement of his symphony was played throughout this series and at first I had no idea what this piece of music was, but once I found out I had to go out and get this symphony on a cd. So at the moment I only have this one recording of the 9th with George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra (which I am listening to at this very minute).

[PerfectWagnerite]

Recently listened to: Solti's 1981 WP version (Decca).

engineering is beauuutiful.

Is that the  Decca Legend version? It's okay but nothing special. Also Solti omits the exposition repeat in Mvt I but takes that repeat in the Finale which completely destroys any symmetry in the work.

[Renfield]

Side-note to the thread:

I am not really acquainted with any of Schubert's symphonies besides my beloved 8th and the 5th. But M's and Gurn's double endorsement of that Sinopoli, which I'd bought to hear the 8th, led me to give it a listen, this morning.

Suffice to say, thank you, M and Gurn.

(Though I still don't care that much for the Sinopoli/Dresden Staatskapelle 8th; yet maybe the Sinopoli/Philharmonia 8th might work better. Coincidentally, I'm expecting it via the post, today.)

[Gurn Blanston]

Side-note to the thread:

I am not really acquainted with any of Schubert's symphonies besides my beloved 8th and the 5th. But M's and Gurn's double endorsement of that Sinopoli, which I'd bought to hear the 8th, led me to give it a listen, this morning.

Suffice to say, thank you, M and Gurn.

(Though I still don't care that much for the Sinopoli/Dresden Staatskapelle 8th; yet maybe the Sinopoli/Philharmonia 8th might work better. Coincidentally, I'm expecting it via the post, today.)

Delighted you like it, Renfield. I agree that this is not the best 8th I've ever heard, although it is more than listenable. There are just so many more recordings of the 8th. I probably have 20! Do let us know about the Philharmonia recording...