Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

[Mandryka]

One thing to say is that although true dynamic variation (as measured in dB) on a harpsichord isn't really possible over short parts of music, a harpsichordist can create the illusion of dynamic variation by means of things like agogic accents, even for just one note. It can be really convincing. Of course for larger sections of music you can use a coupler to pluck more strings and hence to play louder.

[prémont]

And every other instrument in the orchestra.

Of course I meant "as opposed to the harpsichord."

[prémont]

.. My view is that Bach wants us to hear all the voices as independent

But this is perfectly possible on a harpsichord,

[Parsifal]

But this is perfectly possible on a harpsichord,

Harpsichord players typically use agogic accents to achieve this, which do not like, as I mentioned above.

[prémont]

Harpsichord players typically use agogic accents to achieve this, which do not like, as I mentioned above.

True. But agogic accents do not need to disturb the basic pulse, and may instead communicate a very organic feeling. Leonhardt's Bach recordings displays this better than anything else.

[Mandryka]

Harpsichord players typically use agogic accents to achieve this, which do not like, as I mentioned above.

https://www.youtube.com/v/hw9q8kbnDWM

This is Kirkpatrick playing 876 fugue on some sort of harpsichord -- not a very nice one. He uses some rubato but in most of the fugue very little. Notice the independence of voices, and the illusion of dynamic variation, especially in the music around 1'20 passim . I hadn't heard it before.

Isn't it nice to see the way that Bach wrote his name, with the B made with the S!

[Parsifal]

https://www.youtube.com/v/hw9q8kbnDWM

This is Kirkpatrick playing 876 fugue on some sort of harpsichord -- not a very nice one. He uses some rubato but in most of the fugue very little. Notice the independence of voices, and the illusion of dynamic variation, especially in the music around 1'20 passim . I hadn't heard it before.

Isn't it nice to see the way that Bach wrote his name, with the B made with the S!

Had that recording on DG Archiv CD at one point. Never managed to listen to the set all the way through. I didn't hear the illusion of dynamic variation so much as the illusion of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof, as the famous Beecham quip goes. I simply do not enjoy the sound of the instrument.

I have listened to the WTC on harpsichord because I felt it important to know what Bach expected when he wrote it. I am thankful that responsibility is discharged once and for all.

[KevinP]

Would people here mind saving me 62 pages of reading and re-reading and recommend some recordings of the WTC on harpsichord? All mine are on piano.

(I actually am slowly reviewing this thread again, but recommendations are still appreciated.)

[Marc]

Would people here mind saving me 62 pages of reading and re-reading and recommend some recordings of the WTC on harpsichord? All mine are on piano.

(I actually am slowly reviewing this thread again, but recommendations are still appreciated.)

Maybe you'll find this an interesting read... it includes some fine suggestions:

http://www.bsherman.net/WTC.htm

[milk]

Would people here mind saving me 62 pages of reading and re-reading and recommend some recordings of the WTC on harpsichord? All mine are on piano.

(I actually am slowly reviewing this thread again, but recommendations are still appreciated.)

I guess people will say that Glen Wilson, Gilbert and Leonhardt are at the top of the list. I think so. I still like Robert Levin's efforts which include clavichord, organ and fortepiano, in a addition to the harpsichord even though his interpretations are often quite sprightly and straightforward (I like their sunny baroqueness). The organ work is especially illuminating. I wonder if anyone has revisited Watchorn lately? His playing is so slow. So, who else is as imaginative as Feinberg on any instrument? I can't get enough of that lately. He makes my head spin!   

[Jo498]

I'll second Levin's "mixed" approach on Haenssler. Should be fairly cheap on German Amazon (and maybe elsewhere). Wilson's is hard to find separately, I think.

[prémont]

This is Kirkpatrick playing 876 fugue on some sort of harpsichord -- not a very nice one. He uses some rubato but in most of the fugue very little. Notice the independence of voices, and the illusion of dynamic variation, especially in the music around 1'20 passim . I hadn't heard it before.

This is a clavichord, which explains the small degrees of dynamic variation.

[Mandryka]

This is a clavichord, which explains the small degrees of dynamic variation.

Someone above made a post to say that they'd got him doing it on a harpsichord, that's what threw me. Anyway maybe I can conclude that Kirkpatrick's clavichord played a a high volume sounds like a revival harpsichord.

[prémont]

Someone above made a post to say that they'd got him doing it on a harpsichord, that's what threw me. Anyway maybe I can conclude that Kirkpatrick's clavichord played a a high volume sounds like a revival harpsichord.

Sometimes it may be difficult to distinguish, but in the actual case there is no doubt,

I do not know if Kirkpatrick recorded the WTC on harpsichord on a US-label in the early 1950es - he did make some Bach recordings by then, but certain is that he recorded the WTC (both volumes) on clavichord for Archiv ca. 1960 and a few years later on (Neupert revival-) harpsichord for ordinary DG. I have never seen these harpsichord recordings on CD. The Bach/Kirkpatrick harpsichord box DG released some ten years ago ought (since it claimed to becomplete) to have contained these recordings - and BTW also his recording of the toccatas.

[Jo498]

The box only says "complete 1950s" Archiv recordings and apparently does not contain any WTC. The clavichord WTC was on two "Originals" twofers. I doubt that the later harpsichord recordings were ever on CD or if they were either only available in Japan or a long time ago around 1990. I dimly recall that there were a few silver-colored Archiv CD boxes dedicated to Bach and there might have been a harpsichord box among them with these recordings. But generally in the early 1990s Archiv wanted to sell their premium price stuff played by Kenneth Gilbert...

[asin]B0002ANQW2[/asin]

[Parsifal]

Sometimes it may be difficult to distinguish, but in the actual case there is no doubt,

I do not know if Kirkpatrick recorded the WTC on harpsichord on a US-label in the early 1950es - he did make some Bach recordings by then, but certain is that he recorded the WTC (both volumes) on clavichord for Archiv ca. 1960 and a few years later on (Neupert revival-) harpsichord for ordinary DG. I have never seen these harpsichord recordings on CD. The Bach/Kirkpatrick harpsichord box DG released some ten years ago ought (since it claimed to becomplete) to have contained these recordings - and BTW also his recording of the toccatas.

The klavichord is also quieter, as I understand, but that wouldn't be obvious on a recording where the playback volume is adjustable.

I had Kirkpatrick's toccatas on vinyl once. My favorite klavichord recording was oscar Peterson and joe pass playing tunes from porgie and Bess

[Mandryka]

Does anyone know what type of clavichord Kirkpatrick used? I wonder whether it was a historical instrument or a copy, or some sort of "revival" clavichord.

[prémont]

The box only says "complete 1950s" Archiv recordings and apparently does not contain any WTC.

Apparently? It does not contain any WTC, so the WTC and the toccatas on harpsichord were probably recorded in the early 1960es.But WTC vol. i on clavichord was recorded 1959, so the box is not complete indeed.

[prémont]

Does anyone know what type of clavichord Kirkpatrick used? I wonder whether it was a historical instrument or a copy, or some sort of "revival" clavichord.

Bernard Sherman writes here, that the clavichord for book I was built by Arnold Dolmetsch. There are also some comments upon Troeger's recordings:

http://www.bsherman.net/Bachonclavichord.htm

[prémont]

I had Kirkpatrick's toccatas on vinyl once.

So did I, and I also owned his WTC II on harpsichord. I recall a most charmless revival-sound, much worse than the sound on the toccatas and suites.