Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

[milk]

One harpsichordist who still uses a Pleyal is Wladyslaw Klosiewicz. Here's a bit of Francois Couperin




https://www.youtube.com/v/btSRnPyZOXo

and here's a whole recital with Bach and others

https://www.youtube.com/v/0OEV_06qW0I

What do you think? I think it's interesting in a way but also somewhat grating. I have his Froberger recording which I remember liking though. I wonder if it's on this.

[Mandryka]

What do you think? I think it's interesting in a way but also somewhat grating. I have his Froberger recording which I remember liking though. I wonder if it's on this.

I tend to agree.

[Pat B]

What do you think? I think it's interesting in a way but also somewhat grating. I have his Froberger recording which I remember liking though. I wonder if it's on this.

That's a lot of sustain in the first section. Maybe it fits the program, but to my ears it is overboard for the music. I enjoyed the rest quite a bit though, regardless of its level of authenticity.

[milk]

Listening to Till Fellner today and I'm finding a lot of inspiration in it. It's the first time I've heard of him. Is it true that he hasn't done book 2 yet?

[Ras]

Listening to Till Fellner today and I'm finding a lot of inspiration in it. It's the first time I've heard of him. Is it true that he hasn't done book 2 yet?

Yes, that is true, but he did record : Bach: Inventionen Und Sinfonien/Frenc Suite V -  also for ECM:


[asin]B001PS0EL6[/asin]

[milk]

Yes, that is true, but he did record : Bach: Inventionen Und Sinfonien/Frenc Suite V -  also for ECM:


[asin]B001PS0EL6[/asin]

This is lively. Looking forward to his WTC II.

[Ras]

Hi milk
Just in case you don't know: 

There is another pianist/harpsichordist on ECM the jazz-legend Keith Jarrett.

His recording of Bach WTC 1 on piano stands out in a strange way: by not standing out! At least that was my reaction to it when I first heard it. To me it sounds as if he has tried to make a "nake" or "objective" as opposed to a "subjective" romantic interpretation. (Try before buying though if you can)

[asin]B0000260BE[/asin]

Beware if like me you are "harpsichord-challenged" - K. Jarrett's WTC book 2 on the same label is played on harpsichord.

His Handel piano recording is my favorite in that repertoire:

[asin]B000025XCW[/asin]

[milk]

Hi milk
Just in case you don't know: 

There is another pianist/harpsichordist on ECM the jazz-legend Keith Jarrett.

His recording of Bach WTC 1 on piano stands out in a strange way: by not standing out! At least that was my reaction to it when I first heard it. To me it sounds as if he has tried to make a "nake" or "objective" as opposed to a "subjective" romantic interpretation. (Try before buying though if you can)

[asin]B0000260BE[/asin]
Thanks! I'd especially like to check out his Handel!

Beware if like me you are "harpsichord-challenged" - K. Jarrett's WTC book 2 on the same label is played on harpsichord.

His Handel piano recording is my favorite in that repertoire:

[asin]B000025XCW[/asin]

[aukhawk]

I'm a big admirer of Jarrett's solo jazz playing, but his forays into baroque music seem strangely pale and bloodless to me.

[Mandryka]

I'm a big admirer of Jarrett's solo jazz playing, but his forays into baroque music seem strangely pale and bloodless to me.

My view is that what he does is quite charming, but somehow it's more like hearing an amateur play that a professional -- there's not the same sort of nuanced and expressive and bold and imaginative voice-relationships and attacks and ornaments that you get with Egarr or Asperen.  And the things don't sound so good either IMO -- I don't know if it's the way he plays  or the way it's recorded or just the instrument he uses or what. But the almost naive lyrical approach is charming. But really, someone who had only heard his French Suites or WTC would have no idea how much more multi-layered, how much deeper, the music.

[milk]

[staxomega]

Regarding Feinberg's WTC- does anyone have suggestions for the best sounding digital transfer? I chose the Talents of Russia after only hearing the very poor sounding Classical Records CD release. But the Talents of Russia has a stereo ambience effect applied to it, along with filtering the high end. An unknown sourced vinyl rip I have sounds more faithful piano tone wise and doesn't have the annoying ambience filter, it is in true mono.

[Mandryka]

I think this one on soundcloud is worth a listen, modern piano and I suspect close to equal. Some very pianistic reinterpretations maybe,eg the D major fugue.

https://soundcloud.com/user-843628186/sets/bach-well-tempered-clavier-bk

I don't know who John Lewis Grant is but he is a musician.

[milk]

Listening to Feinberg today, one I'd always treasured, and I found it unbearable. The dynamic changes are just so jarring and ugly to me. I wonder which recordings of WTC on piano use the least dynamics while using the most agogics? But I guess maybe I'm just looking down on or complaining about the instrument. Woodward seems a good candidate for a more tolerable approach on piano.

[Mandryka]

Listening to Feinberg today, one I'd always treasured, and I found it unbearable. The dynamic changes are just so jarring and ugly to me. I wonder which recordings of WTC on piano use the least dynamics while using the most agogics? But I guess maybe I'm just looking down on or complaining about the instrument. Woodward seems a good candidate for a more tolerable approach on piano.

Have you heard Hans Jorg Schaefer?

[Iota]

From what I know of Feinberg in WTC he seems a fairly uninhibited tone painter and certainly uses agogics aplenty, but all to great effect I think. He lets the music dictate the bending and swaying of tempi and dynamics, something like seaweed floating in the current, it doesn't seem imposed or cosmetic. Woodward certainly beats a very different drum, more contained but immensely expressive I find.
With Bach's keyboard music I find mood can dictate what jars or not, a style of playing that sounds really wonderful in the morning for example, can be not at all what I want to hear in the evening.
Not so long ago I ordered the Gulda and just couldn't get my head around the somewhat stifled sound of the recording, and haven't been able to revisit yet to see if I can adjust.

[Mandryka]

certainly uses agogics aplenty, but all to great effect I think.

Tempo rubato, as you say he bends and sways the tempos. Rhythmic rubato, agogic hesitations to draw attention to a bit of music, is less of a traditional piano technique (after all, why bother with it if you have dynamic variation even at the level of a single note?) I think that Feinberg does use it subtly and well in fact. He's the real deal IMO, a great musician, with a huge weakness -- too often too bloody fast.

From what I know of Feinberg in WTC he seems a fairly uninhibited tone painter

That I don't hear so much maybe because the sound quality is not so good in my transfers.

Woodward certainly beats a very different drum, more contained but immensely expressive I find.

For some reason I can't put my finger on I can't get on with it, it's a blind spot. Same with his Barraque and Chopin. I really should make more of an effort to see what he's up to I suppose.

The dynamic changes [in Feinberg's WTC] are just so jarring and ugly to me

Yes though this may be due to the transfer.

[Mandryka]

Brenda Lucas Ogdon was John Ogdon's wife and partner in an LP he made of duets by Debussy and Bizet,  Last year she released this recording of WTC 2, on a modern piano, I'm pretty sure equally tuned. In my opinion it's commendable for its extreme sobriety and seriousness. There's hardly any dynamic variation - possibly none. The voices are equal. I don't hear either tempo or rhythmic rubato. She sticks to her pulse. I haven't noticed more than one or two ornaments, and I think they're in the score. Her articulation is limited, basically staccato and a pianistic portato. It is monochromatic. And it's flat: there's zero relief. Expressively, there's nothing much being expressed.  I'm now going to steal a wonderful expression which I think Premont used about 10 years ago, it may be natural in Danish but in English it's pure poetry: she plays with cat's paws.  The whole thing sounds more like a piano teacher playing than a real imaginative creative poet of the piano. 

This does not sound promising, I know. Yet this evening I'm finding it strangely compelling!  I can't say why, my bad taste probably.  See what you think.

No, that's enough. I'm turning the thing off.

[staxomega]

For some reason I can't put my finger on I can't get on with it, it's a blind spot. Same with his Barraque and Chopin. I really should make more of an effort to see what he's up to I suppose.

I am still formulating an opinion of Woodward, he certainly uses quite a bit of dynamic shading. The recording is also a bit unusual in the amount of ambience/reverb it has, it was recorded in a medium sized studio, but Woodward wanted it to sound like it was recorded in a small chapel.

He also has a bit more unusual Shostakovich Op. 87 that I find worthwhile hearing.

Feinberg's legato is primarily what I find so interesting about his performances. Unfortunately after some time that fake ambience/stereo just became too grating to put up with.

That I don't hear so much maybe because the sound quality is not so good in my transfers.

Which transfer do you listen to?

[milk]

Have you heard Hans Jorg Schaefer?

I'm giving it a go now!

With Bach's keyboard music I find mood can dictate what jars or not, a style of playing that sounds really wonderful in the morning for example, can be not at all what I want to hear in the evening.

this may have been the problem; I listened to this in the AM on the way to work. Perhaps one must treat it like spirits: none before noon!
Crossland is another one I want to revisit.