Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Started by Bogey, May 06, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

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Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 04, 2009, 07:33:12 AM
;D



I will be surprised if there is a better WTC recording out there than the one by Richter ...

Mandryka

Quote from: Coopmv on February 06, 2009, 05:38:07 PM
I will be surprised if there is a better WTC recording out there than the one by Richter ...

Which one -- RCA studio or live in Insbrook?

(Hehehe George, I beat you to it)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Opus106

Quote from: Coopmv on February 06, 2009, 05:36:08 PM
Did Gulda record WTC twice?  I am only aware of the Books 1 and 2 available on 2 Philips DUO's ...

Unlikely. (For Philips at least) The dates of recording of the two-fers is the same as that of complete set.
Regards,
Navneeth

haydnguy

Quote from: orbital on February 05, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
Clean (I'd actually say sterile) yes, but I can't think of Gulda WTC associated with romanticism/emotional power at all  ;D
When I want to hear a sober, straight up version without all the fancy embellishments, I go for Nikolayeva.

orbital, I have her AoF and enjoy it very much.I just checked on Amazon (u.s.) and there is only one available from a Marketplace seller of her WTC (both books) and it is in "used-very good" condition for $333.00!! :o  :-X    >:(

Coopmv

Quote from: Mandryka on February 06, 2009, 10:27:23 PM
Which one -- RCA studio or live in Insbrook?

(Hehehe George, I beat you to it)

This is the set I bought


XB-70 Valkyrie

What a horrible cover. How does this recording compare to Richter's other WTCs?
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Coopmv

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 07, 2009, 05:17:09 PM
What a horrible cover. How does this recording compare to Richter's other WTCs?

I have to defer this question to George, our Richtervangelist ...   ;D

George

Quote from: Coopmv on February 07, 2009, 05:30:56 PM
I have to defer this question to George, our Richtervangelist ...   ;D

I haven't done a side by side, but the Insbruck live performance is certainly more extrovert and more spontaneous.

Mandryka

#108
Quote from: George on February 07, 2009, 06:27:10 PM
I haven't done a side by side, but the Innsbruck live performance is certainly more extrovert and more spontaneous.

Well, I just listened to the B minor prelude and fugue from Book 1 from Innsbruck and on the RCA studio disc.

I agree with George when he says that the live Innsbruck is more extrovert. But I'm not sure that it sounds more spontaneous.

Both performances are great examples of Richter's art -- a strong sense of the pulse of the music, amazing colouration, beautiful dynamic shading, tremendous expression of the music's structure.

Timings for the two are about the same -- the RCA is just a few seconds longer.

The sound is dryer and more natural on the live recording that in the studio, which suffers from being rather reverberant (I have noticed it has been remastered.)

The studio B minor is very intense, especially in the prelude.  You get the feeling of a man alone at the piano playing for himself. There are some great pauses -- rests perfectly timed to produce a very dramatic effect. The overall feeling of this performance is dark and tragic -- that special richtarian cosmic tragedy, if you know what I mean.

By comparison, the Innsbruck live performance seems slightly to push the music forward more, even though the timings are roughly the same . I don't get the same dark mood projected. It's not light and joyful; but it lacks that feeling of cosmic tragedy.

So it's 1-0 for RCA in this first match: Innsbruck scores points for sound and liveliness, but the studio takes the match for "depth"





Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George

Thanks for your comparision, Mandryka.  :)

When I said the Insbruck was more spontaneous, I meant it was more spontaneous from one prelude to the next, showing a nice contrast between the different P&F in the set.

XB-70 Valkyrie

What about his recordings on Russian labels? I seem to remember seeing a couple different sets when I was in Russia in 2007.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Coopmv

I think I would be wise to allocate enough funds to buy another 100 CD's by Sviatoslav Richter, given the number of his recordings out there.  But is it wise to buy the 100% Russian-made CD's as there may be a quality issue here?  At least with Brilliant Classics, the remastering is done in the west.

XB-70 Valkyrie

Some of those 100% Russian CDs have priceless performances, and while many of them are not up to western standards of the time, I'd not trade them for anything. Same goes for Michelangeli's live performances (Membran 10 CD sets), many of which I find far more engrossing than his studio recordings.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

ezodisy

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 08, 2009, 04:28:45 AM
What about his recordings on Russian labels? I seem to remember seeing a couple different sets when I was in Russia in 2007.

Of the WTC? Well although the Trovar discography lists his Moscow performance of WTC Book 1 as being released solely on the enigmatic Russian Revelation label

Well-Tempered Clavier, book I
* (Moscow, 20 and 21 April 1969) on Revelation RV 20003 (CD)

there is in fact an apparent second release of it here on the Russian Venezia label:

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2557373

HMV Japan have some sort of special release of the RCA version too (what's an SHM CD?)

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2765072


dirkronk

Quote from: George on February 07, 2009, 06:27:10 PM
I haven't done a side by side, but the Insbruck live performance is certainly more extrovert and more spontaneous.

The studio version is typically referred to as the Salzburg/Vienna set by old line Richtermaniacs such as yours truly, and although it is now available on CD from RCA, it was originally released on Melodiya and licensees (EMI/Angel and later Musical Heritage Society in the LP era). I mention this mainly because I wouldn't want newer fans to be expecting the same quality sonics as, say, Richter's studio Appassionata sonata from late 1960 or the Brahms PC#2 w/ Leinsdorf/Chicago, which were done by RCA's recording crews.

OK, so much for technical stuff. I can't provide a blow-by-blow description of Salzburg/Vienna vs. Innsbruck completes (vs. Moscow Bk. 1, which I haven't yet compared to the other two) but I do own them all (the Salzburg on LP only, the others on CD) and will tell you that the Salzburg is the one I'd opt for if some sadist were to force me to choose only one Richter version. However, if asked to put together my "ideal" WTC, I might well go with Richter/Salzburg for book 1 and Feinberg for book 2. Reason: I'm not so concerned about authenticity of early keyboard versions, but my ears love the amazingly astute, evocative and utterly beautiful phrasing that both Richter and Feinberg offer. All just IMHO of course.
;D

Dirk

George

Thanks dirk!

Once I finish my Schubert Sonatas by Richter backwards traversal, I plan to compare the WTC Salzburg and Insbruck more closely. I just finallly ordered the full Salzburg set yesterday.

Mandryka


Is the RCA set a studio recording, or does it come from concerts in Austria?

I'd be interested to know whether anyone has tried the newly remastered RCA -- is there a big improvement?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

dirkronk

Quote from: George on February 09, 2009, 07:07:39 AM
Thanks dirk!

Once I finish my Schubert Sonatas by Richter backwards traversal, I plan to compare the WTC Salzburg and Insbruck more closely. I just finallly ordered the full Salzburg set yesterday.

I'll be curious to get your reaction, George. I really should do an all-Richter WTC spinoff, so that I can speak more intelligently about the various full books (and of course the odds & ends found on various DGG and other releases, back in the day).

The last WTC comparison I did was an all-LP fest done years ago, with Richter/Salzburg easily topping Gould (who I felt was fascinating for about one LP side at a time, but whose metronomic presentation palled quickly thereafter--and thus I gave away my integral set to a friend who's a certified Gould maven) and Joao Carlos Martins (a very fine MOR version...not his later Tomato CD release but his early WTC, superbly recorded and released in the '60s or early '70s by BOTM Club records). At the time, these were the only complete WTCs I owned and it was only the Richter that could keep my attention engaged side after side, sometimes through the entire book.

Certainly I had to do some reassessment when I heard the Richter/Innsbruck and especially when I first heard Feinberg. My Innsbruck CDs are copies of the JVC/Japan set available several years back, and I do recall liking them a lot and remarking that many of the pieces did have that wonderful "live spark" so prevalent in Richter concerts. Still, the Salzburg remains my fave for the moment. However, after so many years, it may well be that I've simply imprinted on the Richter/Salzburg and that this has colored my preference--thus my curiosity about your opinion.

Cheers,

Dirk

dirkronk

Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2009, 08:03:49 AM
Is the RCA set a studio recording, or does it come from concerts in Austria?

Wish I could tell you, Mandryka, but as I mentioned, my copies are on LP and thus at home (I keep all my CDs at work). Otherwise I'd put one on and see if I could detect coughs or end-of-piece applause. The online Richter discography I checked usually (not always) indicates if a recording was done "live" but that indication isn't made for the Salzburg/Vienna WTC. Maybe someone else here can answer definitively.

I too am curious to know about the sound quality of the RCA transfer. My EMI and MHS transfers on LP sound very good--though hardly audiophile quality--for their time, so I would expect the sonics on the RCA to be at least quite listenable.

Cheers,

Dirk