Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Started by Bogey, May 06, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

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Bulldog

Quote from: George on March 05, 2010, 06:27:00 PM
What do you think of this one, Don (and others)?



I've had this set for many years and just gave it a listen so I could give you a current opinion.  That opinion is highly favorable; I enjoyed it more than ever before.  My sole complaint is that Horszowski isn't exactly a virtuoso.  He had some technical problems in a few of the faster pieces such as the Fugue in E flat major, but the artistry is top-notch.

Valentino

To me Pollini's modernity is his unique ability to make the music he plays sound less interpreted than most other pianists. Of course he interprets, but I do think his way brings me closer to the music than most other pianists do.


Quote from: DavidRoss on March 04, 2010, 12:48:27 PM
All digital?  You mean Valentino (not Val, he's a different member) not only lacks analog sources, but lacks digital-to-analog conversion as well?  What kind of loudspeakers does he have?  And how do they convert the 1s and 0s to sound waves (which are, after all, analog)? 
I do have a record player. I digitize it with a USB soundcard and do RIAA conversion (and four way crossover) on a 32 bit FP format with Waves in a little laptop. I use the Logitech Squeezebox and -server for CD and downloads. 8 DACs  feed class D amplifiers in the speakers which are dynamic dipoles with closed box subwoofers coming in below 40 Hz.
There's a thread about it here.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

DavidRoss

Quote from: Coopmv on February 21, 2010, 04:09:27 AMVal,   Your post is always interesting to me since you probably have the most leading-edge sound system - all digital - among all the folks on this forum.  There is much I can learn from you when I decide to go digital whole hog ...    ;D
Quote from: DavidRoss on March 04, 2010, 12:48:27 PMAll digital?  You mean Valentino (not Val, he's a different member) not only lacks analog sources, but lacks digital-to-analog conversion as well?  What kind of loudspeakers does he have?  And how do they convert the 1s and 0s to sound waves (which are, after all, analog)?
Quote from: Valentino on March 05, 2010, 10:46:59 PMI do have a record player. I digitize it with a USB soundcard and do RIAA conversion (and four way crossover) on a 32 bit FP format with Waves in a little laptop. I use the Logitech Squeezebox and -server for CD and downloads. 8 DACs  feed class D amplifiers in the speakers which are dynamic dipoles with closed box subwoofers coming in below 40 Hz.
There's a thread about it here.
Ah, I see.  Not an "all digital" system at all (whatever that means), but a relatively conventional high-end system that includes a Squeezebox and your serious hobbyist DIY di-pole loudspeakers.  Looks like a nice setup.  I trust it provides you many hours of pleasure.  8)

It seems odd to convert the output from your record player from analog to digital and then back again before feeding your amps.  I presume you're doing this for the sake of converting treasured recordings on LP to a format your digital server can handle and are willing to accept some degradation of sound quality for the sake of convenience...?

The most pressing questions, of course--at least for the sake of this thread--are: "How does Bach's WTC sound through this system? And which great recordings of the WTC do you prefer?"
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Valentino

#503
If my system is conventional I do wonder how an unconventional system looks.  0:)
Since my crossovers are digital I have to digitize the gramophone input. No way around that.  One could always make a discussion what sounds best: A traditional analog RIAA amplifier+ADC or a microphone amplifier+ADC+digital RIAA EQ, but I guess it quickly would dgrade to the normal religious audiophile trench war.

The WTC: I need more recordings. Further up I've said something about the ones I know well.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Coopmv

Quote from: Valentino on March 05, 2010, 10:46:59 PM

I do have a record player. I digitize it with a USB soundcard and do RIAA conversion (and four way crossover) on a 32 bit FP format with Waves in a little laptop. I use the Logitech Squeezebox and -server for CD and downloads. 8 DACs  feed class D amplifiers in the speakers which are dynamic dipoles with closed box subwoofers coming in below 40 Hz.
There's a thread about it here.

I do have an ION USB device that allowed me to digitize a few open-reel tapes of live recordings by Christopher Hogwood and Nikolaus Harnoncourt to my hard-drive with very satisfactory results.  I have not tried that on my LP collection - 4000+ LP's is a lot of digitization work.  My understanding is there is now some one-click pops-and-clicks removal software, which is a whole lot better than some from a few years ago that required manual declicking ...

Coopmv

Quote from: Valentino on March 06, 2010, 04:21:59 AM
If my system is conventional I do wonder how an unconventional system looks.  0:)
Since my crossovers are digital I have to digitize the gramophone input. No way around that.  One could always make a discussion what sounds best: A traditional analog RIAA amplifier+ADC or a microphone amplifier+ADC+digital RIAA EQ, but I guess it quickly would dgrade to the normal religious audiophile trench war.

The WTC: I need more recordings. Further up I've said something about the ones I know well.

Valentino,  You may have to consider joining another forum George and I are also members of.  That forum has tons of expertise in hardware and digital sound technologies, though most of its members have no interest in classical music ...

George

Quote from: Bulldog on March 05, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I've had this set for many years and just gave it a listen so I could give you a current opinion.  That opinion is highly favorable; I enjoyed it more than ever before.  My sole complaint is that Horszowski isn't exactly a virtuoso.  He had some technical problems in a few of the faster pieces such as the Fugue in E flat major, but the artistry is top-notch.

Thanks very much!

DarkAngel

Quote from: George on March 05, 2010, 06:27:00 PM
What do you think of this one, Don (and others)?





I mentioned the Horszowski several months ago here and love it, same general performance style as Feinberg which has become my very favorite piano version of WTC........these two artists do more than just play the notes, they have a rythmic flow that eludes must others, imaginative and dramatic without sounding forced/willful as Gould can sometimes seem.

I have the above mentioned Pollini, Crossland, Hewitt etc and they play the notes beautifully and accurately but sometimes without the natural flow I hear in these two. The middle part of WTC I can sound flat if the keyboard player does not have a sense of imagination and ryhtmic flow, that is where I find most differences between versions and where these two stand out for me

Same can be said of Chopin's Mazurkas, if you just accurately play the notes they become a muddled mess. Artist must have a sense of rythmic flow in thier delivery that brings them to life

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 06, 2010, 05:16:17 AM



I mentioned the Horszowski several months ago here and love it, same general performance style as Feinberg which has become my very favorite piano version of WTC........these two artists do more than just play the notes, they have a rythmic flow that eludes must others, imaginative and dramatic without sounding forced/willful as Gould can sometimes seem.

I have the above mentioned Pollini, Crossland, Hewitt etc and they play the notes beautifully and accurately but sometimes without the natural flow I hear in these two. The middle part of WTC I can sound flat if the keyboard player does not have a sense of imagination and ryhtmic flow, that is where I find most differences between versions and where these two stand out for me

Same can be said of Chopin's Mazurkas, if you just accurately play the notes they become a muddled mess. Artist must have a sense of rythmic flow in thier delivery that brings them to life

Have you heard the sets by Edwin Fischer on Naxos Historical.  I have the 2 sets - WTC1 and WTC2 ...






George

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 06, 2010, 05:16:17 AM



I mentioned the Horszowski several months ago here and love it, same general performance style as Feinberg which has become my very favorite piano version of WTC........these two artists do more than just play the notes, they have a rythmic flow that eludes must others, imaginative and dramatic without sounding forced/willful as Gould can sometimes seem.

Thanks Dark Angel. I read your prior comments last night. I sampled the Horszowski last night at a used store, but wasn't knocked out by it so I put it back. I need to spend more time with my Gould, Feinberg, Richter (Innsbruck and RCA), Fischer (Pearl) and Tureck sets before buying more.

DarkAngel

#510
Coop
I have heard samples of Fischer, but the sound may be too "historical" for me to buy the set or listen to on a regular basis, I really do like his dynamic style of his performance

George
Interesting that you are fan of Feinberg but not impressed with Horszowski, my initial impression was they are cut from same cloth with similar style......will give another listen later today to see if I missed something.

I also like Feinberg more than Richter RCA....... ;)

George

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 06, 2010, 05:53:20 AM
George
Interesting that you are fan of Feinberg but not impressed with Horszowski, my initial impression was they are cut from same cloth with similar style......will give another listen later today to see if I missed something.

That's just it. I don't tend to get multiple recordings that are in a similar vein. I like more contrast.

Quote
I also like Feinberg more than Richter RCA....... ;)

Me too.  8)

Coopmv

Quote from: George on March 06, 2010, 06:10:09 AM
That's just it. I don't tend to get multiple recordings that are in a similar vein. I like more contrast.

Me too.  8)

I don't have the WTC by Feinberg ...

George

Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2010, 06:14:45 AM
I don't have the WTC by Feinberg ...

The one to have is the one that Dark Angel posted. It has the best mastering of those performances. I bought mine through the website Russian DVD.com.

DarkAngel

#514
Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2010, 06:14:45 AM
I don't have the WTC by Feinberg ...

Yes if you want one buy from Russian DVD out of NY..........expensive but cheapest place I have found
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35887&genreid=

I think I will break down and buy a Edwin Fischer set for historical reference, he does have a very dynamic style I like.....Anyone have a preference for 3CD EMI vs 4CD Naxos versions?

   

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 06, 2010, 06:28:01 AM

Yes if you want one buy from Russian DVD out of NY..........expensive but cheapest place I have found
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35887&genreid=

I think I will break down and buy a Edwin Fischer set for historical reference, he does have a very dynamic style I like.....Anyone have a preference for EMI vs Naxos versions?

   

The Naxos Historical version should have better SQ.  I found my sets to have excellent piano tone.

BTW, is the e-tailer Russian DVD you recommended located in NY?

DavidRoss

Quote from: Valentino on March 06, 2010, 04:21:59 AM
If my system is conventional I do wonder how an unconventional system looks.  0:)
;D 8) Hah!  Just saying that it's hardly "all digital" (as someone other than yourself described it). 
Quote from: Valentino on March 06, 2010, 04:21:59 AMThe WTC: I need more recordings. Further up I've said something about the ones I know well.
Need?  Not if you have Schiff.   8)  And especially not if Pollini is even better!  ;D
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

George

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 06, 2010, 06:28:01 AM

Yes if you want one buy from Russian DVD out of NY..........expensive but cheapest place I have found
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35887&genreid=

I think I will break down and buy a Edwin Fischer set for historical reference, he does have a very dynamic style I like.....Anyone have a preference for 3CD EMI vs 4CD Naxos versions?

   

I am not sure who did the Naxos. Coop?

But stay away from the EMI, as it's overfiltered and sounds like the piano is in the next room.

I have and enjoy the Pearl, but that's OOP.

Coopmv

Quote from: George on March 06, 2010, 06:40:26 AM
I am not sure who did the Naxos. Coop?

But stay away from the EMI, as it's overfiltered and sounds like the piano is in the next room.

I have and enjoy the Pearl, but that's OOP.

Stuart A. Rosenthal

George

Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2010, 06:44:08 AM
Stuart A. Rosenthal

Thanks. I haven't heard any of his work. I also recall hearing not so favorable things about the Naxos, but I forget where.

Dark Angel - more info here.