Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

[Holden]

Okay.  One recording where Schiff delivers the full sweep of Bach's music is his Goldbergs on ECM.  I bet you would like it.

I probably would but all of my Schiff experiences have not been positive. I will check it out.

[Opus106]

Yet another (?) Tureck.

[George]

Yet another (?) Tureck.

The DG set came out in 1953, FWIW.

On another note, I wasn't aware that the Beatles had started a Classical CD label. 

[Holden]

Well, I think I have found my ultimate version of the WTC and it won't really be a surprise.

I found a site that gave me a streaming file of all of BkI and another with all of BkII and this has just blown me away. This is heart on your sleeve Bach and it explores the depths of this wonderful music like no other version I've heard.

Yes, the Feinberg was great but Sviatoslav Richter speaks directly to me in a way that I never thought possible. OK, the sound is rather tubby but the range of both emotion and intellect that SR brings out of this music is just awe inspiring. All I have to do now is find a copy.

[George]

Yes, the Feinberg was great but Sviatoslav Richter speaks directly to me in a way that I never thought possible. OK, the sound is rather tubby but the range of both emotion and intellect that SR brings out of this music is just awe inspiring. All I have to do now is find a copy.

Which one? The RCA, the live at Innsbruck or the one on Russian Revelation (April 1969)?

[Holden]

George - this is the one I listened to.



If the Innsbruck is better I'd like to know. The RR only seems to have Bk I.

Please advise.

[George]

George - this is the one I listened to.

Trovar lists that one as being the same as the one on RCA, but the RCA Book two is not available singly, so if you are unable to find the Olympia issue of book two, you'd need to buy books one and two together on RCA to get book two. I think books one and two were reissued on another label during the last few years, but I don't have more info on that, sorry. I think it was discussed in the Richter thread sometime last year. I recall that the sound was reportedly better than on previous issues of this material. BTW, I haven't compared the sound of the RCA and the Olympia, as I don't have the Olympia, only the RCA. I do have the remastered book one on RCA and the complete set issued earlier and I find the sound on the complete set to be a bit better.     

This is the RCA complete set that I own:

If the Innsbruck is better I'd like to know. The RR only seems to have Bk I.

Yes, I believe RR is only available in Bk I. I haven't had a chance to compare it to the Innsbruck or the RCA/Olympia yet. I can say that the Innsbruck set is OOP and extremely rare.

[sTisTi]

OK, so I've read 33 pages of WTC discussion, but no mention of Walcha? I've tried to find more information about this set as the Third Ear Guide to Classical Music is so enthusiastic about Walcha's WTC. They lamented that (back in 2003) his two recordings (EMI 1961 and Archiv 1974) were OOP and raved about the "intellectuality, supreme consistency and penetration into the world of the 48" and the reviewer considered it the best harpsichord WTC set ever, preferable to Gilbert, Moroney, Vernet, Leonhardt and others.

So now I discovered that EMI has indeed reissued a 5 CD box with Walcha's WTC, Goldberg Variations and 2 & 3 Part Inventions & Sinfonias:

http://www.amazon.com/Clavier-Tempere-Inventions-Variations-Goldberg/dp/B000V1Z0CQ/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1270483416&sr=1-6

I found samples only at Amazon.fr and the short (29 seconds) and heavily compressed files are difficult to evaluate regarding the sound quality. As for interpretation, Walcha takes many Preludes and Fugues considerably slower than my other harpsichord set (Van Asperen on Virgin), but the Third Ear commentary may be right, it definitely feels more "penetrating" than the at times slightly superficial van Asperen, which I like quite well otherwise.

What are your opinions on this set? Is the 3rd Ear reviewer right or are there now much better sets (on harpsichord) that also dig deep into the music?

[George]

What are your opinions on this set? Is the 3rd Ear reviewer right or are there now much better sets (on harpsichord) that also dig deep into the music?

Haven't heard the Walcha, but the 3rd Ear guide has guided me to hundreds of great performances. I love that book! 

[Opus106]

I know Antoine Marchand recently purchased that set, persuaded by premont, who is a local Bach/Harpsichord enthusiast (pardon the understatement ).

[prémont]

I know Antoine Marchand recently purchased that set, persuaded by premont, who is a local Bach/Harpsichord enthusiast (pardon the understatement ).

OK, so far it is just you.

[prémont]

OK, so I've read 33 pages of WTC discussion, but no mention of Walcha? I've tried to find more information about this set as the Third Ear Guide to Classical Music is so enthusiastic about Walcha's WTC. They lamented that (back in 2003) his two recordings (EMI 1961 and Archiv 1974) were OOP and raved about the "intellectuality, supreme consistency and penetration into the world of the 48" and the reviewer considered it the best harpsichord WTC set ever, preferable to Gilbert, Moroney, Vernet, Leonhardt and others.

What are your opinions on this set? Is the 3rd Ear reviewer right or are there now much better sets (on harpsichord) that also dig deep into the music?

I have written quite much about Walcha, among other this about his harpsichord recordings (from the thread:Bach on the harpsichord):

Helmut Walcha the harpsichordist is (was) not that different from Helmut Walcha the organist.

The EMI recordings (originally Odeon, Germany) were made in the years 1958 – 62 (he later rerecorded the WTC for Archiv on period instruments) and  include

Clavierübung I, II  and IV.
Wohltemperierte Clavier I & II
English and French suites
Inventions & Symphonies
Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue

The complete recordings were rereleased by Japanese HMV on CD more then ten years ago, and it was difficult to get hold of and very expensive. Since long OOP. The only European CD rerelease is the French 5CD HMV box displayed in you post above.

The used instrument is a two manual Ammer modern harpsichord (16´ , 8´, 8´, 4´, and lute stop), built - as it was common in the 1950es - with pianistic ideals in mind and not taking surviving period instruments into account. The sound is not crisp at all but rather harsh and metallic.

The recording was engineered by Eric Thienhaus, who preferred a very close miking. This resulted in a more harsh sound than necessary, but on the other hand added quite a lot of intensity to the sound. A more recent parallel as to effect might be Kovacevic´s EMI Bethoven Sonata recordings.

Stylistically Walcha was entirely his own. He grew up in the time of the organ movement, which – as you know - constituted a reaction towards romanticism -  and had intruduced an ascetic, platonic view upon Bach´s works. Only what was written in the original score should be played (Werktreue). In my opinion they actually confused the score with the work. So Walcha on his own hand (while he was retired to the countryside – in Bruchköbel - during the war) worked out his interpretation of the harpsichord works based upon the naked score and which for the same reason was bound to stress the elementary elements which are notated in the score (rhythm and counterpoint).

In practice his tempi are often fast. His playing is insistent rhythmically but also stiff and mechanical, including the metrical execution of ornamentation. And he never adds ornamentation, even when the music cries out for this. On the other hand his part playing is outstanding and very clear, - this may be the greatest force of his music making. He uses rather much 16´ in his registrations, and this is probably justified, as Bach had access to such instruments and was known to prefer Gravitas at least in organ-registration. Walcha built up his own system of articulation, which implies more legato, than now is considered decent. What e.g. annoys me very much, is his preference for overtied upbeats creating rhythmically odd syncopated effects. His touch is rather forceful  (the effect stressed by the close miking) as if he was playing on a mechanical tracker organ with a heavy action.

What stands out as being the hallmarks of his playing, is his ability to display the intellectual structure (the counterpoint at most) of Bach´s music by means of his extraordinary clear part playing. At the same time his insistent rhythm and forceful touch endows the music with very much intensity, often bordering a kind of extasy. So in addition to his intellectual approach, his music making also has got a strong physical effect. This reflects in my opinion the intrinsic nature of Bach´s music, and it is in this synthesis where Walcha may be considered unsurpassable, even if he - from a HIP point of view - got some of the details wrong. Personally I consider his EMI harpsichord recordings mandatory for every Bach-lover.

[Antoine Marchand]

... who is a local Bach/Harpsichord enthusiast (pardon the understatement ).

I would prefer: "harpsichord connoisseur". It's more elegant and proper in this case.   

[Opus106]

I would prefer: "harpsichord connoisseur". It's more elegant and proper in this case.   

There's no fun in saying that.

[Antoine Marchand]

There's no fun in saying that.

This is our other harpsichord connoisseur, but unfortunately you can see him frequently commanding the pianophile troops: 

[sTisTi]

Haven't heard the Walcha, but the 3rd Ear guide has guided me to hundreds of great performances. I love that book! 

Me too, much more trustworthy than e.g. the Penguins, although I share the latters aversion to Glenn Gould

[sTisTi]

...
What stands out as being the hallmarks of his playing, is his ability to display the intellectual structure (the counterpoint at most) of Bach´s music by means of his extraordinary clear part playing. At the same time his insistent rhythm and forceful touch endows the music with very much intensity, often bordering a kind of extasy. So in addition to his intellectual approach, his music making also has got a strong physical effect. This reflects in my opinion the intrinsic nature of Bach´s music, and it is in this synthesis where Walcha may be considered unsurpassable, even if he - from a HIP point of view - got some of the details wrong. Personally I consider his EMI harpsichord recordings mandatory for every Bach-lover.

Thanks a lot for your evaluation! Sounds mandatory to me as well
However, I'm worried that I might not like the actual sound of the harpsichord as you described it. I wonder whether there are some samples available online with better quality than on Amazon.fr?

[prémont]

Thanks a lot for your evaluation! Sounds mandatory to me as well
However, I'm worried that I might not like the actual sound of the harpsichord as you described it. I wonder whether there are some samples available online with better quality than on Amazon.fr?

Here are a few examples, which I uploaded some time ago. It is not the WTC or the Goldbergs, but the sound is characteristic of the instrument and his playing. My sources were LP releases, digitalized by myself.


Chromatic Fantasy (without Recitativo and Fugue):

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ebm0a1jd5hz/Chromatic fantasy.wav


English suite no.3,Sarabande:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/x2m0tmzqizg/English suite 3  Sarabande.wav


Partita no.6, Gigue:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jny0d0t2hje/Partita no 6 Gigue.wav

[sTisTi]

Here are a few examples, which I uploaded some time ago. It is not the WTC or the Goldbergs, but the sound is characteristic of the instrument and his playing. My sources were LP releases, digitalized by myself.

Thank you!
First of all, congratulations for your good digitalization efforts - I doubt that the actual CD release will be much better considering it's a late 1950s/early 1960s recording
As for the harpsichord sound, I actually like it better than some period harpsichords I've heard. No problem at all for me, so time to grab a copy of the 5 CD box while it's still in print...

I guess Walcha's 1974 Archiv recording never made it to CD?

[prémont]

Thank you!
First of all, congratulations for your good digitalization efforts - I doubt that the actual CD release will be much better considering it's a late 1950s/early 1960s recording
As for the harpsichord sound, I actually like it better than some period harpsichords I've heard. No problem at all for me, so time to grab a copy of the 5 CD box while it's still in print...

I guess Walcha's 1974 Archiv recording never made it to CD?

You are wellcome.


Walchas Archiv WTC recording was available at amazon.fr in a French DG CD release until maybe one or two years ago, but it is now OOP.