Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Started by Bogey, May 06, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bulldog

Quote from: premont on May 14, 2010, 02:31:23 AM
I do not really understand the meaning of "a classic/standard approach" to playing the WTC on piano. And even if I did, I would consider Tureck and Gould to be so far away from that standard as might be possible. DidnĀ“t they both set their own standard (good or bad - if you want)? Standard approach -  well, I rather think of Jando.

Agreed.  I've never thought there was a standard approach to playing the WTC; also, Tureck and Gould are miles apart concerning their Bach interpretations.

Scarpia

Quote from: Bulldog on May 14, 2010, 06:31:01 AM
Agreed.  I've never thought there was a standard approach to playing the WTC; also, Tureck and Gould are miles apart concerning their Bach interpretations.

I interpreted it as meaning an approach which values clarity of voice leading over "romantic" aspects, such and expressiveness or dynamics.  Gould and Turek are in the same camp, from that point of view, I would say.


Bulldog

#702
Quote from: Scarpia on May 14, 2010, 06:33:48 AM
I interpreted it as meaning an approach which values clarity of voice leading over "romantic" aspects, such and expressiveness or dynamics.  Gould and Turek are in the same camp, from that point of view, I would say.

I can't see why "clarity" would be the standard over all other considerations.

I think that the notion of a standard for Bach playing is nonsense.

Edit:  I should have mentioned that clarity of voice, especially for contrapuntal music, is always important, but it doesn't carry the day by itself.

Scarpia

Quote from: Bulldog on May 14, 2010, 09:31:46 AM
I can't see why "clarity" would be the standard over all other considerations.

I think that the notion of a standard for Bach playing is nonsense.

Edit:  I should have mentioned that clarity of voice, especially for contrapuntal music, is always important, but it doesn't carry the day by itself.

Well, for the WTC, standard to me means performance on a harpischord.  Performed on a piano you are listening to a transcription, of sorts.

Bulldog

Just wanted to share this with the group.  Yesterday, I must have listened to the Fugue in F sharp minor of BK. 2 at least ten times in a row (Belder/Brilliant Classics).  It's such a fantastic piece of sublime intensity that sears its way into my soul; also, I find the mix of austerity and lyricism totally compelling.  Doesn't hurt that Belder's interpretation is about the most rewarding I've ever heard.

I remember that a board member stated a few weeks ago that he found Belder's set unmusical.  I still can't get a decent handle on that remark.

George

Does Belder play the piano or hapsichord, Don?

Coopmv

Quote from: George on August 19, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
Does Belder play the piano or hapsichord, Don?

The set is probably dirt cheap since it is released by BC IIRC.  But then in classical music, price is not always the determining factor for performance ...

Scarpia

Quote from: George on August 19, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
Does Belder play the piano or hapsichord, Don?

Harpsichord.  I managed to listen to the 30 second except on amazon.  It was the wrong 30 seconds.

George

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 11:38:58 AM
Harpsichord.  I managed to listen to the 30 second except on amazon.  It was the wrong 30 seconds.

Thanks.

Bulldog

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 11:38:58 AM
Harpsichord.  I managed to listen to the 30 second except on amazon.  It was the wrong 30 seconds.

FWIW, Amazon has clips for every prelude and fugue.

Which clip did you listen to?

Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on August 19, 2010, 11:25:00 AM
But then in classical music, price is not always the determining factor for performance ...

Make that "infrequently" and I'd agree with you.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Bulldog on August 19, 2010, 12:36:07 PM
FWIW, Amazon has clips for every prelude and fugue.

Which clip did you listen to?

Bk I, Fugue in c-minor.  :)

Scarpia

Quote from: Bulldog on August 19, 2010, 12:36:07 PM
FWIW, Amazon has clips for every prelude and fugue.

Which clip did you listen to?

Sorry, I listened to the one you suggested, but the 30 seconds was inadequate to get any impression of the performance.  It sounded like the initial exposition.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 12:43:14 PM
Sorry, I listened to the one you suggested, but the 30 seconds was inadequate to get any impression of the performance.  It sounded like the initial exposition.

You betrayed yourself, Scarpia!

Scarpia

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 19, 2010, 12:46:31 PM
You betrayed yourself, Scarpia!

But A. M., I've already listened to the sample for Bk. 1 c-minor, it didn't pass my test, which is why I don't have it already.  But I was curious what Bulldog was talking about so I ventured an alternate test.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 12:50:28 PM
But A. M., I've already listened to the sample for Bk. 1 c-minor, it didn't pass my test, which is why I don't have it already.  But I was curious what Bulldog was talking about so I ventured an alternate test.

Just to be sure, I understand now.  ;D

Bulldog

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 12:43:14 PM
Sorry, I listened to the one you suggested, but the 30 seconds was inadequate to get any impression of the performance.  It sounded like the initial exposition.

Okay.  I went to Amazon and also listened to the 30 seconds of the Fugue in F sharp minor.  I agree - you can't tell anything from that sample.  That's why such short samples can be a waste of time.  The piece has a natural progression and inevitability that's thrown under the bus by the sample.

I could say that if you listened to the entire fugue, you would likely love it.  However, you've got me totally stumped concerning your tastes.  All I know is that you are very particular, so it's best that I keep that in mind.

Scarpia

Quote from: Bulldog on August 19, 2010, 01:39:57 PM
Okay.  I went to Amazon and also listened to the 30 seconds of the Fugue in F sharp minor.  I agree - you can't tell anything from that sample.  That's why such short samples can be a waste of time.  The piece has a natural progression and inevitability that's thrown under the bus by the sample.

I could say that if you listened to the entire fugue, you would likely love it.  However, you've got me totally stumped concerning your tastes.  All I know is that you are very particular, so it's best that I keep that in mind.

I'm tempted to get it.  However this observation gives me pause.  Of the WTC, I have about 6 versions on piano, of which I have actually listened to 4.  I have about 6 versions on harpsichord, of which I have listened to 1.   So my appetite for harpsichord performance exceeds my ability to digest it. 

Bulldog

Quote from: Scarpia on August 19, 2010, 01:50:12 PM
I'm tempted to get it.  However this observation gives me pause.  Of the WTC, I have about 6 versions on piano, of which I have actually listened to 4.  I have about 6 versions on harpsichord, of which I have listened to 1.   So my appetite for harpsichord performance exceeds my ability to digest it.

If I had six harpsichord versions and had only listened to one, I sure wouldn't acquire more of them.  I'd either get back to the other five or scratch the whole project.  The WTC is a necessity of life for me; clearly you can continue living the good life without it.

Out of curiosity, are there some works or composers you find a necessity pretty much on a daily basis.

Scarpia

#719
Quote from: Bulldog on August 19, 2010, 02:23:42 PM
If I had six harpsichord versions and had only listened to one, I sure wouldn't acquire more of them.  I'd either get back to the other five or scratch the whole project.  The WTC is a necessity of life for me; clearly you can continue living the good life without it.

Out of curiosity, are there some works or composers you find a necessity pretty much on a daily basis.

If I had to pick one composer it would Brahms.  There is something of every style in Brahms. 

If there is music I would like to hear on a daily basis it would be Bach.  I like to listen to a selection of Bach each time I seriously listen to music.  I have never tried to listen to a substantial part of the WTC at a sitting.  It is usually a pair of preludes and fugues, maybe four.  But with all of the wonderful instrumental music Bach has written I don't cycle around to the WTC that often.   Unfortunately I don't have s much time to listen to music as I would like.  I feel fortunate if I can find time to listen to some music every day.

For the WTC, on piano I enjoy my Schiff and Hewitt most often.  Recently I've been making my way through Ashkenazy, which is not spectacular.  I've got Crosswind and Woodward on deck, and Guilda which I owned once upon a time, sold, and now have again.