Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Started by Bogey, May 06, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

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Bulldog

Quote from: Coopmv on November 20, 2010, 09:49:29 AM
How is that coefficient calculated anyway?   ;D

Sounds like we need a mathematics thread.  Does Henk agree?

Henk


PaulSC

Well, I've just stumbled onto a marvelous recording of WTC I that seems never to have been mentioned here at GMG (and likewise never reviewed at the online sites I browse). The performer is Russian pianist Alexander Korolev. I admit I spotted his recording while searching for Evgeni Koroliov's renditions of WTC I+II. No relation, of course -- I'm still in pursuit of the latter, which I'll probably end up getting on CD from a mail-order source. Meanwhile I'm delighted with my accidental discovery of Korolev.



I know next to nothing about this pianist. His solo discography seems slim -- there's some Romantic-era  repertoire up on YouTube, but I haven't clicked Play. There's an Alexander Korolev who plays the trumpet part of Shostakovitch Op. 35 alongside pianist Vladimir Krainev on a disc I spotted -- that's probably just a coincidence of names, right?

Anyway, Korolev's WTC I is probably the most animated/energetic treatment of this music that I've heard -- on a par with Hantaï, and similar in spirit though of course very different in sound. But Korolev's playing is nuanced, his generally fast tempos are immaculately controlled, and slower pieces like the E flat minor Prelude and the B flat minor fugue have plenty of poetry in them. While Korolev plays deep into the keys like a good Russian, he never "pounds" out subject statements. Pieces with a dance character, like the C-sharp major Prelude, really shine. I love how he plays the walking bass of the B minor Prelude legato on the first pass and staccato on the second, to cite one of many appealing interpretive touches.

Sonically the record is good, I wouldn't say great, and I should add that I've been listening to it only in mp3 format. A quibble: some low notes in the Bb major Prelude are badly out of tune. (The worst of the lot can be heard during the 30-second preview at Amazon.) If you can forgive this isolated fault, and if the high-energy conception of the music isn't entirely contrary to your tastes, I recommend a closer look at the set. Amazon seems to be selling it only as mp3 downloads.

PaulSC

(The Korolev YouTubes turn out to be mostly of the home-movie variety. Some fine piano performances, but nothing that belongs on a commercial recording.)

czgirb

Quote from: George on December 06, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
Yes, I have three, though for 1969 only Book One was released.

1. '70, '72, '73 - Salzburg Studio (RCA)
2. '73 - Live at Insbruck (Victor)
3. '69 - Live (Revelation)

What about this CD set, George?
* Sviatoslav Richter - Collection Box (10cd, Japan)
* Recorded in August - September 1972, February 1973 in Salzburg
* JAPAN. STEREO 20bit K2 Mastering DIGITAL K2 Cutting 2003
This is the best sounding Recordings of Sviatoslav Richter's Well-Tempered Clavier in the market?

George

Quote from: czgirb on December 18, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
What about this CD set, George?
* Sviatoslav Richter - Collection Box (10cd, Japan)
* Recorded in August - September 1972, February 1973 in Salzburg
* JAPAN. STEREO 20bit K2 Mastering DIGITAL K2 Cutting 2003
This is the best sounding Recordings of Sviatoslav Richter's Well-Tempered Clavier in the market?

I can't say, as I don't have that one, sorry.

czgirb

Quote from: George on December 18, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
I can't say, as I don't have that one, sorry.

What about Inventions & Sinfonias, George? Whose recording you preferred?
I only own Schiff & Gould ... i think their both good.

Oh yes! I wonder why there is no Schiff's WTC recording within USA ... it's a pity.
Regarding to Well-Tempered, I only have Gould (CD), Landowska (LP), Schiff (CD), & Tureck(CD).

Coopmv

Quote from: czgirb on December 20, 2010, 04:27:31 PM
Oh yes! I wonder why there is no Schiff's WTC recording within USA ... it's a pity.

You meant WTC by Schiff is unavailable in the US?  Of course, it is ...

czgirb

Quote from: Coopmv on December 20, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
You meant WTC by Schiff is unavailable in the US?  Of course, it is ...
Yup! Why? Schiff' is my first WTC

Bulldog

Quote from: PaulSC on December 21, 2010, 11:01:17 PM
Thank you for mentioning these, Don. When I was browsing available performances of the Inv/Sinf earlier this year, I skipped right over the Aeolus disc based on its unpromising title/cover. My mistake; van Asperen always deserves consideration, and the performances do seem wonderful based on previews at Amazon. (Besides, "never judge a book by its cover", right?)

Sonically I wish the room weren't so live -- these "lessons" seem to be taking place in the school gymnasium -- but I got used to that within two or three tracks. So many musically persuasive details in these interpretations; for instance, I love the choice of the lute stop for the A minor Invention -- so different from the usual approach to this one.

btw do you have any thoughts on the Korolev WTC 1 I mentioned upthread a bit?

Glad you like the van Asperen.

I listened to an hour of the Korolev WTC I on RussianDVD - very rewarding.  I knew it would be exceptional when I heard his Prelude in C major which is highly nuanced and reads like a fine story.  Thanks for bringing up this wonderful  set.  And don't forget about the Koroliov; that's also a winner.

PaulSC

Quote from: Bulldog on December 26, 2010, 08:51:47 AM
Just last night I was listening to the 3rd disc of Watchorn's WTC II set - very illuminating.  I don't recall ever hearing a harpsichord tone so alluring as Watchorn's; always interesting and gorgeous.  Also, the use of the Lehman tuning system clearly enhances the effect.
There are so many compelling harpsichord versions -- Gilbert, Leonhardt, Glen Wilson, Hantaï, Dantone, Verlet, the list goes on! -- that I'm finding I choose my favorites in large part based on the inherent sound of the instrument. Of course there has to be an inspired performer seated at the keyboard too. So two that have risen to the top for me are Watchorn and Suzuki. (But I would never want to be without Gilbert, and I'll soon have Wilson out from the library for a fresh listen.)

I'm finding that Watchorn fares especially well in the pieces that are also suitable for organ performance (e.g. Bk II D maj). His sustained tone, fuller registration choices, and unhurried tempos all contribute, and the pedal rank gives a depth to some of the bass-register statements and pedal-points that no other harpsichord recording matches (e.g. the firmly grounded conclusions of Bk I C maj and Bk II E maj prelude, and the grand bass statement at the end of the Bk I C min fugue). Those aren't Watchorn's only virtues: I also love his momentum and varied articulations in the Bk II E min fugue, for instance -- in fact this p/f might be the first pair I'd play for someone new to Watchorn's set. This cycle isn't perfect, and some of the weaker moments come early. The Bk I C# maj prelude feels rushed in a few spots, and  the D maj prelude in Bk I and G maj fugue in Bk II suffer from moments of uneven fingerwork.

As for Suzuki, I've been listening to his recent traversal of Bk II, and I've fallen in love with the lean, wiry sound of his instrument (evidently a signature of instrument maker Willem Kroesbergen's work). This more delicate timbre reinforces the transparency and flow of Suzuki's playing. While he never matches the majesty and grandeur of Watchorn's most compelling performances, I can listen straight through Suzuki's more intimate cycle and not feel anything is missing. For what it's worth I've not yet given much attention to Suzuki's earlier recording of Bk I. There's a surplus of recordings of this first book, since several great artists, including Fellner and Hantaï have not (yet?) covered Bk II...

Bogey

Well, I have a gift card for Amazon and I believe it is almost time to act on a set of WTC's...both books, of course.  So, I will take some time and read through these 39 pages that you folks kindly contributed to.  I will do some sampling and then make my choice. :)
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

Quote from: Bulldog on September 22, 2008, 01:20:19 PM
I wouldn't want to try to convince anyone that my opinion of Gould's WTC is the one that others should hold or adopt, particularly for a body of music that is compelling in so many different types of interpretation.  There are folks who find Gould not very musical, but I'm not one of them.  If you don't like how Gould plays the Prelude in C major, perhaps you won't care much for his other performances of the set.

I gather you're not a fan of the fortepiano; that's fine.  As for Tureck's DG complete set, yes the price is quite high, but this set is probably the most compelling classical music performance I have ever heard.  So as far as I'm concerned, the cost means nothing.  And don't forget her other sets on BBC Legends.  Of course, if you don't take well to Tureck (and plenty don't), you'll feel like a big-time loser.

These are hard times, and WTC acquisition decisions are difficult.  If you offer up some of your basic musical preferences, I could possibly provide you with decent insights.  Some potential considerations:

1.  Any problem with historical recordings with sub-par sound; that's Tureck's DG situation.
2.  In the sound spectrum from very dry to wet, what's your preference?
3.  Prefer rounded or sharp contours.
4.  Prefer exuberant or reflective interpreations.
5.  Do you want Bach's dark side prominently displayed?
6.  How about Bach heard as "Papa Bach"?
7.  Is detail important to you or are you more concerned with musical sweep?
8.  Harpsichord okay?
9.  Lean or full textures.
10.Etc.

I own many dozens of WTC sets, and it's clear to me that no one artist can give you everything that's great about Bach's music.

Don (and others),

I enjoy the Gould Goldbergs.....I am looking probably for "detail" first.  Does he have this and does Richter?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

Skip Gould and Richter after sampling.  I did like the Gulda and the Crossland sets so far.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

#774
These three are definitely in the final round, and Gulda got dropped.

Tureck (DG)
Fellner
Crossland

Can anyone find me a sample of Tureck's BBC works?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

George

Quote from: Bogey on December 26, 2010, 07:49:59 PM
These three are definitely in the final round, and Gulda got dropped.

Tureck (DG)
Fellner
Crossland

Can anyone find me a sample of Tureck's BBC works?

No, but I can strongly suggest you grab the DG Tureck. It's excellent.  :)

Bulldog

Quote from: Bogey on December 26, 2010, 07:49:59 PM
These three are definitely in the final round, and Gulda got dropped.

Tureck (DG)
Fellner
Crossland

Can anyone find me a sample of Tureck's BBC works?

JPC has samples of the first disc of her WTC 2.

Bogey

Thanks George and Don.  I believe I would be kicking myself if I passed on the DG set, though the BBC was nice as well, but the Book II samples were hard too judge.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

czgirb


Bulldog

Quote from: czgirb on December 26, 2010, 10:27:50 PM
What is the difference between Tureck's Well-Tempered DGG & the one issued by New Style?
http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Well-Tempered-Clavier/dp/B000AC5EG8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1293434776&sr=1-7

Beats me.  The cover image of Tureck is circa 1990; that would make this recording much more recent than both the DGG and BBC.  Then again, the image could have no tie-in to the recording date.

Why don't you buy it and let us know what's going on?