Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Started by Bogey, May 06, 2007, 01:26:30 PM

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Bulldog

Quote from: PaulSC on February 03, 2011, 09:27:47 AM
I'm going to do this. Does anyone prefer if the performers are identified or unidentified (to be revealed later)?

I would consider identification to be best; I don't play games.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Bulldog on February 03, 2011, 09:18:46 AM
That's for sure.  By the way, the best BWV 854 Fugue I've ever heard comes from Schepkin on his Ongaku set; the exuberance leaps out of the speakers.
I have his Partitas (was that one of your recs?).  I got it from the Partita thread and love him in those.  I have also acquired the WTC with Richter on RCA, but I have only listened to parts of it. I've liked what I heard on that too.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Bulldog

Quote from: ukrneal on February 03, 2011, 10:20:25 AM
I have his Partitas (was that one of your recs?).  I got it from the Partita thread and love him in those.  I have also acquired the WTC with Richter on RCA, but I have only listened to parts of it. I've liked what I heard on that too.

Yeah, I do recommend Schepkin's Partitas but consider his WTC the best Bach I've heard from him.  As for his Goldberg Variations, I was very disappointed with his fussy mannerisms including a highly unattractive regimen of trills.

PaulSC

Making these videos was a big headache. I guess it was a learning experience but there must be easier ways. Anyway, happy listening!

http://www.youtube.com/v/MXuQG2WiQ5w

http://www.youtube.com/v/DdwwaF7aAQw

Bulldog

Quote from: PaulSC on February 03, 2011, 01:08:53 PM
Making these videos was a big headache. I guess it was a learning experience but there must be easier ways. Anyway, happy listening!

http://www.youtube.com/v/MXuQG2WiQ5w

http://www.youtube.com/v/DdwwaF7aAQw

I hope your head is much better now, and I appreciate the harpsichord versions provided.  When I'm listening to Bach on harpsichord for a few weeks, it takes me some time to adjust to Bach on piano.  After listening to the piano for many days, going back to the harpsichord is like coming home.

Concerning the four pianists, I'd have to go with Fellner and Koroliov - plenty of energy and it doesn't stop.  Korolev wasn't to my liking; I found the performance awkward.

For the four harpsichord versions, I favored the Hantai for basically the same reasons as favoring Fellner and Koroliov.  Although quite slower than the norm, I enjoyed Gilbert and Watchorn with their fine attention to detail.  Suzuki was fine.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: PaulSC on February 03, 2011, 01:08:53 PM
Making these videos was a big headache. I guess it was a learning experience but there must be easier ways. Anyway, happy listening!

Well, I enjoy them, so know they are being listened to with happiness! Here were my thoughts:

854 Fugue - Piano: Winner: Fellner
Fellner: Unfamiliar with this pianist (new for me). Oh - very nice touch indeed. I liked this a lot. Maybe could have been more dynamics, but overall good.
Korolev: Fast. And an uneveness in tempo. The piece felt disjointed.   
Koroliov: Brighter sound. More muscular than Fellner. Not bad.
Mustonen: Too staccato and clipped for my tastes. A bit more dynamic though, which I would have liked more of from the others. But clipped playing overwhelms.

Harpsichord is harder for me to judge, because I am not a fan of the sound. Of these, I liked Suzuki best, perhaps in part due to a warmer sounding instrument. I did not like Gilbert at all, who I found slow and not as consistant on tempo. The others were ok.

Really appreciate your putting this together Paul!!!!
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

PaulSC

Thanks for listening and commenting, Don and Neal!

I shouldn't have been so grumbly about making the videos, but it was my first time using iMovie, and Apple somehow thinks it's clever to ship all their consumer-level software without proper manuals. I think I was struggling because I thought of the task as "adding a few simple visuals to a primary audio track," whereas iMovie is set up for adding simple audio cues to a primary video track.

Anyway, it was very interesting to read your reactions. For the record, I find it very easy to enjoy three of these piano WTCs (Fellner, Korolev, and Koroliov -- although Korolev is not at his best in this fugue) and  -- even moreso -- three of these hpscd WTCs (Hantaï, Suzuki, Watchorn). I especially love the instruments played by Suzuki (sinuous and less steely, a bit like a classical guitar or a lute hpscd) and Watchorn (a pedal hpscd with an augmented bass register and a big, cinematic sound that suits his unhurried interpretations).

The remaining interpretations are perfect when I'm in certain moods. Gilbert's is the most hands-off of the bunch and is what I go to when I don't want a performer imposing an idiosyncratic point of view on the music. It rewards the same kind of attention I'd give the music when playing it myself or just reading the score. Mustonen is obviously the opposite, a highly "interventionist" reading that I admit I find compelling, especially when I listen to bigger chunks instead of a single fugue. As most folks here probably know, Mustonen recorded WTC I across two records interleaved with the Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues. Not something I reach for everyday.

FideLeo

Quote from: PaulSC on February 04, 2011, 12:10:23 PM
As most folks here probably know, Mustonen recorded WTC I across two records interleaved with the Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues. Not something I reach for everyday.

He did for WTC2 as well, on the Ondine label.  After owning the WTC1 for years, I finally decided I that I don't need to follow it up.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

PaulSC

Quote from: masolino on February 04, 2011, 01:48:09 PM
He did for WTC2 as well, on the Ondine label.  After owning the WTC1 for years, I finally decided I that I don't need to follow it up.

The two Mustonen WTC recordings I own, on RCA and Ondine, add up to WTC I only. The reason they span 2+1 CDs (in spite of generally fast tempo choices) is that the complete Shostakovich Op. 87 is mixed in.

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If he truly recorded WTC II as well, I'd love to hear it. (I might be the only one, however!)

FideLeo

#849
Quote from: PaulSC on February 04, 2011, 02:07:47 PM
The two Mustonen WTC recordings I own, on RCA and Ondine, add up to WTC I only. The reason they span 2+1 CDs (in spite of generally fast tempo choices) is that the complete Shostakovich Op. 87 is mixed in.



Sorry!  I guess I didn't care for the recording itself enough to recall its contents correctly.  For me, there are simply far too many composers in that performance.  :P


HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

George

Quote from: sadko on February 02, 2011, 04:13:07 PM
Being a WTC fan myself this thread caught my attention. When I had been reading through it half way, I thought, which recordings have I got, that have not been mentioned yet?

One of them was the set of Walter Gieseking on DG, with books I and II:

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My goodness, that is fast. Far too fast for me.  :-\
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 09, 2011, 06:21:16 PM
My goodness, that is fast. Far too fast for me.  :-\

Looks like I will pass on this set.  I do not like speed demon for WTC ...

Bulldog

Quote from: George on February 09, 2011, 06:21:16 PM
My goodness, that is fast. Far too fast for me.  :-\

My problem with Gieseking's WTC isn't the tempos but the god-awful sound.

George

Quote from: Bulldog on February 09, 2011, 06:48:58 PM
My problem with Gieseking's WTC isn't the tempos but the god-awful sound.

Like all too many historical piano recordings on major labels (they love to go heavy on the noise reduction, I find) the piano sounds like it's underwater.  :-\
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Bulldog

Quote from: George on February 09, 2011, 06:52:11 PM
Like all too many historical piano recordings on major labels (they love to go heavy on the noise reduction, I find) the piano sounds like it's underwater.  :-\

Well, Gieseking's WTC sound isn't recessed, but it stinks in every other way.  I also have the feeling at this point that Gieseking's interpretations do not transcend the sound limitations (only listened twice so far).

George

Quote from: Bulldog on February 09, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
Well, Gieseking's WTC sound isn't recessed, but it stinks in every other way.  I also have the feeling at this point that Gieseking's interpretations do not transcend the sound limitations (only listened twice so far).

I have only heard the DG samples over at amazon, but they sure aren't encouraging me to want to hear more.

Plus, I am happy with Fienberg, Richter (live and studio), Edwin Fischer, Tureck (DG) and Gould. In fact, I'd like to get to know these sets even better, especially Feinberg and Tureck, and buying more means more time away from what I already have. 
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Coopmv

Quote from: George on February 09, 2011, 07:01:21 PM
I have only heard the DG samples over at amazon, but they sure aren't encouraging me to want to hear more.

Plus, I am happy with Fienberg, Richter (live and studio), Edwin Fischer, Tureck (DG) and Gould. In fact, I'd like to get to know these sets even better, especially Feinberg and Tureck, and buying more means more time away from what I already have.

George, I also have every version you listed above.  Thanks so much for the heads up on the Feinberg version, which is probably OOP by now ...

Lethevich

Which recordings do you guys find to be the slowest/most Romantic/indulgent performances of the cycle (single book recordings are fine too)?

These tend to be considered quite negative interpretive traits, but I'd like to seek some out to establish for myself a frame of reference to compare with the usual recommendations.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

George

Quote from: Lethe on February 12, 2011, 01:13:20 AM
Which recordings do you guys find to be the slowest/most Romantic/indulgent performances of the cycle (single book recordings are fine too)?

These tend to be considered quite negative interpretive traits, but I'd like to seek some out to establish for myself a frame of reference to compare with the usual recommendations.

Feinberg comes to mind.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Scarpia

Quote from: Lethe on February 12, 2011, 01:13:20 AM
Which recordings do you guys find to be the slowest/most Romantic/indulgent performances of the cycle (single book recordings are fine too)?

These tend to be considered quite negative interpretive traits, but I'd like to seek some out to establish for myself a frame of reference to compare with the usual recommendations.

Barenboim is a possibility, I would imagine.

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