Author Topic: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings  (Read 8864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13495
  • Location: Colorado
HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« on: April 07, 2007, 06:21:02 AM »
And this should fill in the rest of the HIP gaps from the keyboard thread.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 06:43:04 AM by Bill »
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13495
  • Location: Colorado
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2007, 06:26:06 AM »
I will start here:

Is there a Haydn Symphony set that is HIP worth having, or do I stand by and hope they re-release the chunk that Hogwood recorded for a decent price?  Any HIP Haydn Symphony single discs that you enjoy?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 06:41:10 AM »
There are many HIP Haydn recordings, but so far as I know, the only complete or semi-complete set of the symphonies is by Christopher Hogwood and the AAM, but it's out of print and the volumes are very scarce and expensive.  Whenever I come across one of those at a reasonable price, I snap it up.  I understand that Harnoncourt does intend to record all of them, but it's a work in progress.

For other great hip recordings, I generally look for anything by Nikolaus Harnoncourt and the Concentus Musicus Wien -- their Paris Symphonies is terrific; Bruno Weil and Tafelmusik; Franz Brüggen -- he has a set of the London Symphonies on Philips that's very reasonably priced; van der Golz and the Freiburger Barockorchester - a great 6,7,8; Trevor Pinnock -- boxed set of the Sturm und Drang symphonies from DG is excellent; and Sigiswald Kuijken who may have a complete symphony cycle, but I only know of the late symphony sets (Paris, Channel and London).

All in all I think it is possible to put together a great set of HIP Haydn, even if not from the same orchestra and director.

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13495
  • Location: Colorado
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 07:03:35 AM »
There are many HIP Haydn recordings, but so far as I know, the only complete or semi-complete set of the symphonies is by Christopher Hogwood and the AAM, but it's out of print and the volumes are very scarce and expensive.  Whenever I come across one of those at a reasonable price, I snap it up.

Yes.  I emailed them some time ago with whether they might re-release these Hogwood recordings.  Here is what they wrote back:

Dear Bill,

Decca have not informed us of any plans to re-release or finish these
discs. As you suggest it would be lovely to be able to complete the
set. At this stage in a volatile recording market it is not viable
for Decca to do so but we hope, as you do, that it may be a future
possibility.

Regards,
Laura Milner
Administrator AAM


There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 07:17:29 AM »
Here are a few non-Baroque or Classical HIP recordings that I enjoy very much.

Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 in Em/ Variations, Op. 2  - Emanuel Ax; McKerras/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
Chopin: Piano Concerto No.2 in Fm/Grand Fantasia  - Emanuel Ax; McKerras/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
Brahms/Krehl: Deux Quintettes avec clarinette dedié a Richard Mühlfeld - Stadler Quintet (J.C. Veilhan, clarinet)
Dvorák: Old and New World Quartets - L'Archibudelli
Bruckner: String Quintet, Intermezzo, et al. - L'Archibudelli
Ravel: Bolero - Jos van Immerseel, Anima Eterna Orchestra


Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 07:19:06 AM »
Yes.  I emailed them some time ago with whether they might re-release these Hogwood recordings.  Here is what they wrote back:

Dear Bill,

Decca have not informed us of any plans to re-release or finish these
discs. As you suggest it would be lovely to be able to complete the
set. At this stage in a volatile recording market it is not viable
for Decca to do so but we hope, as you do, that it may be a future
possibility.

Regards,
Laura Milner
Administrator AAM





Bummer!  It would seem that fools are running music companies, as ever.  Hopefully, they will make these available one day as high quality downloads.  Now that would be a reason to subscribe to DG's new music service.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 07:57:15 AM by Bunny »

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31644
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2007, 07:47:34 AM »
Bill,
It will be impossible for L'Archibudelli to not crop up here a lot! They don't do "The Complete..." anything, but what they do, they do well. For keyboard works, they use either Jos von Immerseel or (rarely) Robert Levin, who are two of the top names in fortepiano. when they need winds they add in members of Mozzafiato (Charles Neidich's group). I have most of their recordings and have never been disappointed in any of them, from their Mozart to Beethoven and especially Schubert. They don't do a lot of later stuff, I see that Bunny has mentioned the Dvorak and Bruckner, to which I will add their Brahms String Sextets.

2 labels to look for: SONY/Vivarte and Deutsche Harmonia Mundi.

For the Haydn Symphonies, I have 3 disks in the Tafelmusik set on Vivarte. You can't go wrong with these, even though you will have to shop around on Amazon Marketplace. If they don't have them for a reasonable price today, they might tomorrow, so be diligent. You won't be disappointed. The Kuijiken/La Petite Bande disks on Virgin Veritas are easier to find, and also worth the effort. My only comment is that despite beautiful playing and sound, the Channel Symphonies are taken a bit too slow for my taste, which means nothing, of course, since they may be perfect for yours, no way to tell without listening.   :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 08:43:59 AM »
Gurn, there are so many labels that record HIP music, I would be hard pressed to name them all.  Besides, most of the HIP artists and ensembles seem to float from one company to another every time their contracts come up for renewal so it's probably more helpful to list the HIP artists and ensembles than the labels.  I also find that most labels are not exclusively HIP in any repetory.  Take Cpo; it has so many HIP recordings as well as non HIP.

Haffner

  • Guest
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 11:41:09 AM »
The Kuijiken Haydn Symphonies are quite good! I'm not sure if they are better than the Hogwood, however...

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31644
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 02:53:44 PM »
Gurn, there are so many labels that record HIP music, I would be hard pressed to name them all.  Besides, most of the HIP artists and ensembles seem to float from one company to another every time their contracts come up for renewal so it's probably more helpful to list the HIP artists and ensembles than the labels.  I also find that most labels are not exclusively HIP in any repetory.  Take Cpo; it has so many HIP recordings as well as non HIP.

No, you're right about that, Bunny. Those two are nearly a sure thing though. And L'Oiseau Lyre, too. I do have several HIP recordings on CPO, as you say, but in some cases I didn't even know it until after I got the disk (like the Holzbauer symphonies, for example) because CPO swings both ways. ;)  If DHM does too, then I guess I've been lucky, since I haven't a single one on modern instruments. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 05:41:46 PM »
No, you're right about that, Bunny. Those two are nearly a sure thing though. And L'Oiseau Lyre, too. I do have several HIP recordings on CPO, as you say, but in some cases I didn't even know it until after I got the disk (like the Holzbauer symphonies, for example) because CPO swings both ways. ;)  If DHM does too, then I guess I've been lucky, since I haven't a single one on modern instruments. :)

8)

DHM is another label owned by RCA-Sony-BMG in Germany.  While DHM is predominantly HIP they are owned by Sony-BMG.  Btw, they absorbed Teldec which is how Harnoncourt and the CMW arrived there.  L'Oiseau Lyre is not releasing anything new anymore, but has been reabsorbed into Decca-Philips.  Most of the things you will find on that label are reissues, and many are coming out as Decca or Eloquence (such as Christophe Rousset's recent set on Decca). 

Harmonia Mundi and Hyperion (includes their budget label Helios) do have HIP artists under contract but they also have conventional artists as well.  The same for Channel Classics and Bis.  Pieter Wispelwey has three recordings of Beethoven's music for piano and cello on the Channel Classics label, two are on period instruments (fortepiano and classical construction cello) and the other double cd album in SACD/hybrid is on modern instruments.  I think it's going to be hard to find more than DHM and L'Oiseau Lyre as exclusively HIP, and I'm not sure if DHM will continue as an exclusively period instrument and performance label.

This is why I think it's easier to look at the artists and ensembles rather than the labels, especially when it comes to the smaller labels.  And, even taking the artists into consideration, sometimes they use period instruments and sometimes they don't!  I'm thinking of my two cds of Chopin by Emanuel Ax on fortepiano with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (Sony); or Yo-Yo Ma's baroque albums with Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra On those Ma plays a baroque cello (and very well, too).

The Kuijiken Haydn Symphonies are quite good! I'm not sure if they are better than the Hogwood, however...
.

I don't have enough of the Hogwood to make the comparison, especially as I have very early Haydn done by Hogwood and late Haydn done by Kuijken.  It would be nice if someone who has both could let us know how they differ. 

Offline alkan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 296
HIP Haydn : Kuijken and Hogwood
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2007, 02:22:04 AM »
In reply to Bunny,

I have several of the Hogwood boxes, mainly the middle symphs  (50-75).     I also just received the Kuijken set of 82-92.   

In terms of comparison I don't think that there is a lot of difference.      The HIP sound is similar ...... lean strings, clear woodwind and brilliant and often startling horns and trumpets.       Everything is very transparent.    The main difference is that Hogwood does not include a harpsichord continuo whereas Kuijken does.     This makes Hogwood sound even leaner and this is my personal preference. But the harpsichord is not obstrusive in Kuijken and it nicely fills out the sound.    A matter of personal taste.

As far as the interpretations go, again I find them similar.       Both lively, sensitive and often revealing.     Beautiful playing from both bands.     

I am very happy with both sets and I return to them regularly, as I do Harnoncourt for the Londons, Szell for some of the earlier Londons  (no 97 in particular), Solomons for the Sturm und Drang and Bernstein for the Paris.       Haydn is an in exhaustible goldmine, doubly so with HIP and non-HIP versions.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Offline alkan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 296
Haydn goldmine ...
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2007, 02:24:09 AM »
Whooooops !!!!!

Of course I meant to say that Haydn is an INexhaustible goldmine !!!!!!!
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2007, 07:40:45 AM »
Whooooops !!!!!

Of course I meant to say that Haydn is an INexhaustible goldmine !!!!!!!

Hi Alkan,

You know if you push the "Modify" button at the top of any of your posts, you can edit them and fix all those grammar and spelling errors and typos.  I do that very frequently, too frequently as a matter of fact. ;)

Thanks for the information about the Hogwood Haydn compared to the Kuijken.  For the Harnoncourt London Symphonies, are you referring to his recordings with the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam or has he recorded them with the CMW as well?

Offline stingo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1008
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2007, 07:50:23 AM »
Bylsma's recording of the Bach Cello Suites comes to mind.


Offline alkan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 296
Hi Bunny
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2007, 01:06:53 AM »
Thanks for the tip about correcting mistakes ...... I will surely use it a lot from now on !

Yes, the Harnoncourt London's are with the Concertgebouw.     There is no CMW version, and I don't think there will be in the future.   Modern sound of course, but very nicely recorded and the interpretations and playing are absolutely excellent.    Harnoncourt is a natural for Haydn ..... they really seem to be on the same wavelength in this dazzling music.    I don't have the Jochum or Davis sets, but I have heard odd symphonies from them on the radio and my preference stays with Harnoncourt each time.   The only slight weak link I found is No 103.    The drumroll is far too exaggerated and I feel a lack of tension on the last movement.       I'm still looking for a really satisfactory version of No 103 in fact, and all recommendations are welcome.       I'm wondering about Mackerras .... ???    There doesn't seem to be an outstanding HIP version   (Kuijken did not seem to get good reviews here, perhaps Bruggen is better  .....???)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 01:15:35 AM by alkan »
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2007, 09:59:10 AM »
Actually, the Kuijken did not receive bad reviews here, in fact the set was recommended by Que and Haffner.  Not surprisingly, I also have the Kuijken London Symphonies, so perhaps later I'll listen to the Drumroll and let you know what I think.  I have Adam Fischer's complete set of Haydn Symphonies, and while it's not HIP, it's really very, very, good.  If you can find a single recording of the Drumroll, that might just be the ticket.  In fact, it's as good a complete set as has been made.  Stefan Sanderling has a set of London Symphonies as well, and if his single release of nos. 94, 100 and the Overture from La Premiata Fedeltà is anything to go by, he's and excellent Haydn interpreter, too.  And there is also Leonard Bernstein's recording with the NYPO, which while far from HIP does have it's very great merits.

Haffner

  • Guest
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2007, 03:05:04 AM »
Actually, the Kuijken did not receive bad reviews here, in fact the set was recommended by Que and Haffner.  Not surprisingly, I also have the Kuijken London Symphonies, so perhaps later I'll listen to the Drumroll and let you know what I think.  I have Adam Fischer's complete set of Haydn Symphonies, and while it's not HIP, it's really very, very, good.  If you can find a single recording of the Drumroll, that might just be the ticket.  In fact, it's as good a complete set as has been made.  Stefan Sanderling has a set of London Symphonies as well, and if his single release of nos. 94, 100 and the Overture from La Premiata Fedeltà is anything to go by, he's and excellent Haydn interpreter, too.  And there is also Leonard Bernstein's recording with the NYPO, which while far from HIP does have it's very great merits.



The Adam Fischer set is terrific, but I think the Dorati Symphony recordings might be overall better. The latter are a bit more consistent I think.

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2007, 01:10:49 PM »


The Adam Fischer set is terrific, but I think the Dorati Symphony recordings might be overall better. The latter are a bit more consistent I think.

Yes, but the Dorati are not HIP, nor can they even claim to be hybrid.  I do have to admit that it's stretching it for the Fischer as well, but they are influenced by period practice.

Offline Bunny

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
Re: HIP Non-Keyboard Recordings
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2007, 01:16:25 PM »
Another find at the library. :D

Listening to this makes me so sad that Reinhard Goebel is no longer able to play the violin.  :'(