Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg

[karlhenning]

Exactly, there is for instance Charlie Chaplin.....I have never cracked so much as a smile there: complete mystery.

Not even Hinkel and the globe, Mike?

[karlhenning]

. . . and that quintet in ACT 4 . . . .

You mean, Marvin, that it was originally in four acts, and the current 4-hour-plus version is . . . the reduction? 

[Superhorn]

  Actually, there is a considerable amount of humor in Die Meistersinger.
The way Beckmesser garbles the words of Walther's song which he has stolen during the 3rd act song contest is hilarious. It sounds like one of those surreal beatnik poems of the 60s!
  Also,there is a lot of witty dialogue in the libretto, snide comments,put downs,etc. It helps if you follow a recording with an English translation.

[karlhenning]

  Also,there is a lot of witty dialogue in the libretto, snide comments,put downs,etc.

Yes, the librettist certainly had ample experience with snide comment and put-downs 

[marvinbrown]

You mean, Marvin, that it was originally in four acts, and the current 4-hour-plus version is . . . the reduction? 

  Sorry Karl  that should have been ACT 3, all of Wagner's operas are in 3 Acts (it is on CD 4 of my Karajan recording on EMI of that opera, hence my mistake). Anyway joking aside, one of the most stunning moments in Die Meistersinger occurs in Act 3  when Sachs/Eva/Walther/David and Magdalene (hence the quintet ) join forces in one breathtaking (no exaggeration here I assure you  ) vocal experience.  Check it out when you have the chance,  it starts with " Die Selige Morgentraum-Deutweise". 

  PS: sorry for the delayed response I have been away for some time now!

  marvin

[Undutchable]

A great opera/music drama to be sure! It seems to me at least that Meistersinger is rarely performed on stage. Is that your experience?

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[Superhorn]

  Performances of Die Meistersinger are not all that rare, but it requires a very large cast and the roles of Hans Sachs and Walther are very long and strenuous, so it may not be as frequently heard as other Wagner operas.

[Coopmv]

Here are the two CD sets I have, both by Karajan ...





I also have the stereo set on LP ...

[eyeresist]

Look, I don't actually know the Meistersinger as yet, but I just have to tell someone about how, after I managed to put off listening to Wagner for years, some SOB in the music shop was playing the last part of Die Walküre (the South Australian recording), and I was forced, forced, I tell you, to immediately buy six CDs of the man's opera music.

One of those CDs was the Eloquence disc of Lohengrin highlights conducted by Kubelik, with pretty much the same forces as his recording of Meistersinger. Amazing. Is his Bavarian recording of Parsifal also in this league?

[Coopmv]

Look, I don't actually know the Meistersinger as yet, but I just have to tell someone about how, after I managed to put off listening to Wagner for years, some SOB in the music shop was playing the last part of Die Walküre (the South Australian recording), and I was forced, forced, I tell you, to immediately buy six CDs of the man's opera music.

One of those CDs was the Eloquence disc of Lohengrin highlights conducted by Kubelik, with pretty much the same forces as his recording of Meistersinger. Amazing. Is his Bavarian recording of Parsifal also in this league?

I have Kubelik's Parsifal.  I think it is excellent.

[knight66]

Kubelik's version of Meistersinger is as good as it gets. I have never read a negative word about it....except that I don't think it comes with a libretto, at least not with my Myto issue.

It seems to have been recorded in concert form, so you get basically a live organic experience, without the stage noise, especially bad in the first Karajan recording, lots of clodhopping there!

Mike

[PSmith08]

Kubelik's version of Meistersinger is as good as it gets. I have never read a negative word about it....except that I don't think it comes with a libretto, at least not with my Myto issue.

It seems to have been recorded in concert form, so you get basically a live organic experience, without the stage noise, especially bad in the first Karajan recording, lots of clodhopping there!

Mike

Kubelik was a fine Wagner conductor who has, unfortunately, not gotten all the credit he deserves. In addition to his well regarded Parsifal and Meistersinger sets, he did a Lohengrin on DGG with the BRSO that is really nice.

[knight66]

There is one drawback I see with that Lohengrin, Gweneth Jones as Outrud. She makes the second act a bit of a trial. That apart, it is an excellent set.

Mike

[Coopmv]

Kubelik was a fine Wagner conductor who has, unfortunately, not gotten all the credit he deserves. In addition to his well regarded Parsifal and Meistersinger sets, he did a Lohengrin on DGG with the BRSO that is really nice.

I have Kubelik's Lohengrin on LP.

[PSmith08]

There is one drawback I see with that Lohengrin, Gweneth Jones as Outrud. She makes the second act a bit of a trial. That apart, it is an excellent set.

Mike

To each his own. For my part, I find her Ortrud (and, for that matter, her Kundry -- on the 1970 Boulez) set infinitely more palatable than her Brünnhilde for Boulez. I think, however, that that meets the definition of "damning with faint praise."

[knight66]

I basically see her name and run for the hills. The wobble factor is painful in a lot of her recordings. I do know of an exception, but it moves the subject of the thread too far out of kilter.

Kempe and Kubelik both were experts in pacing Meistersingers.

Mike

[PSmith08]

I basically see her name and run for the hills. The wobble factor is painful in a lot of her recordings. I do know of an exception, but it moves the subject of the thread too far out of kilter.

Kempe and Kubelik both were experts in pacing Meistersingers.

Mike

On that topic, I would suggest adding to the list Fritz Reiner and Karl Böhm. Now, I should make my bias clear: while I am not usually a fan of fleet Wagner, I think that Meistersinger benefits from a tempo on the quick side. If you look at Furtwängler's 1943 recording, you'll see that, if it weren't missing some parts, it would be over five hours long. That sort of length is generally insupportable. Furtwängler's orchestral contribution carries the day by creating an atmosphere of dignity and restraint, though. That does not, however, mean that the night isn't five hours long with second-rate singers. I have always viewed Meistersinger, however, as a comic piece, and, as a result, I think that the brisk interpretations of Reiner and Böhm work.

[knight66]

I agree with that underlying idea, though I do not know either Reiner or Bohm in that opera. However, I like the textures light, sprung rhythms and a feeling of flow. Kubelik and Kempe both provide that lyrical approach.

I saw a concert version two years ago and, following the libretto, I could not wait for some passages to move forward, definitely a numb bum evening. I enjoyed Goodall's approach, though it is at the extreme stately end of the spectrum. But I have not heard more than extract of that performance for many years and I have not ordered the recently issues set. Perhaps now I would not respond to the leisurely approach.

Mike

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Saw Meistersinger yesterday in the Finnish National Opera. Liked it a lot but I really need glasses, at times I couldn't see shit what was going on the stage. Lots of funny moments, particularly from Beckmesser. The real crowner was during the second act when Beckmesser tries to stop Sachs from interrupting Beckmesser's song by sitting on Sachs's lap and stopping the hammer strikes with his lute, all the while trying to play it. It needs to be seen to realize the extent of its hilariousness. Although most of the time I kind of had hard time seeing it.

[Lisztianwagner]

I have listened to many versions of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, but my favourite recording is Karajan/Staatskapelle Dresden; in my opinion, Karajan chose a perfect tempo, always well balanced, that made the performance full of beauty, refined, but also powerful and passionate in every scene, and he was able to extract from the orchestra a wonderful clear, melodious sound (the way he handled the brass was superb), great intensity, colour and harmonic richness. The solemnity and stateliness of Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk, merged with funny moments for his only 'comedy', are very well depicted by the music. The cast is terribly good, from Adam as Sachs to Kollo as Walther; but the singer who impressed me most was Evans, who excellently portrayed the pompous and peevish Beckmesser.

 

Schenk's production is unbeatable, what a joy for eyes is to see the Nuremberg of the 16th century!