Kalevi Aho(born 1949)

[Sergeant Rock]

I have a right to be on this thread as much as anyone does whether I like one work or 20 of them.

Sure...but why do you think anyone would take the advice of someone who clearly states they have little to no interest in Aho? Why would you think snyprrr would be interested in the opinion of someone who has little knowledge of and almost no interest in the composer?

Sarge

[relm1]

How in the world did you assume I have little knowledge of Aho? I own almost every Aho BIS recording to date and have heard many of his works on numerous occasions. I have examined his style and have paid attention to what it is this composer is about stylistically. Again, someone can make a recommendation despite how someone feels about the composer's music if there's actual music by said composer that I enjoy, thus, why I made the recommendation I did. This isn't some card trick. Also, I never said I didn't have an interest in the composer, I merely said, in passing, that I'm pursuing other interests at present. This doesn't imply anything nor should it be taken as some cold, hard fact. I like some of Aho's music, but, given how much time I've spent with the music, I have only found a couple of works worthy of my attention. I don't think he's a terrible composer by any stretch of the word nor did I make any such implication. You like more works then I do, then that's great, I'm happy for you and everyone else who does.

So, proceed good fellow.

[Mirror Image]

Mirror, you are sort of an arrogant prick.  I deduce this from your comments to me in Schnittke and now here as well.  Sarge did not say you have little knowledge of Aho.  He said you have no interest in him.  You might know everything about him but sure do act mightier than other opinions.   You are pretty consistently condescending and I take offense.

My apologies to Sarge and you, relm. I misread Sarge's post and overreacted. As a result, I deleted my post and with good reason. I'm not 'sort of' an arrogant prick. You don't know me from an atom, relm. I take offense to someone who has to use personal insults as a way of making a point. No need in that. Sorry for anything that I've said that offended you here or otherwise.

[relm1]

You know what, I am sorry too.  It just rubbed me the wrong way and I will edit my post.  I overreacted to your post.

[Daverz]

You know what, I am sorry too.  It just rubbed me the wrong way and I will edit my post.  I overreacted to your post.

Now I remember all those other times MI has said that "blah blah blah is not memorable."  It really shouldn't bother me, but it does.  I intend to retire the phrase from my own musical lexicon.

I think the last Aho that really grabbed me was the Trombone Symphony.

[Mirror Image]

Now I remember all those other times MI has said that "blah blah blah is not memorable."  It really shouldn't bother me, but it does.  I intend to retire the phrase from my own musical lexicon.

I think the last Aho that really grabbed me was the Trombone Symphony.

But people shouldn't take the criticism to heart. There are a lot of people who can't stand anything by Schnittke or Takemitsu, but I'm not worried about it as people are going to enjoy what they enjoy. As long as I'm not bashing a composer, I don't see any harm in stating my problem with a composer or just giving my reactions to the music. I mean, after all, this is what a forum is about. I mean we're not a bunch of 'yes' men/women.

[lescamil]

Some discussion back on the topic of the composer would be nice...

I found this dissertation on Aho's flute concerto, which contains a piano reduction by the author, quite interesting, and it might prove interesting to others as well:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwiP9JulmPbHAhVNrIAKHVpDC0w&url=https%3A%2F%2Frepositories.tdl.org%2Fttu-ir%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F2346%2F58451%2FMCLACHLEN-DISSERTATION-2013.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1&usg=AFQjCNEplmfvEI8Aj5eKLb9w_O7NhlLsQQ&sig2=AWMIKG9F7nzhaLYOMeQUtg&cad=rja

[snyprrr]

I don't find Aho that memorable of a composer nor do I think he has too distinctive of a compositional voice, but the concerti for clarinet and flute are among his most astonishing works IMHO. I also remember enjoying Symphony No. 10 a lot, especially with that long Adagio. Quite a powerful symphony.

No.10 IS one that has been recommended before,... and now I'm really curious about the Flute Concerto.


My position on Aho, from the outside, would be that, clearly, with so much smoke over soooo many works, there MUST be some fire in there somewhere, and, with all these newer Syms. being lauded as having so many different directions, I can but only fantasize what I would be in store for.

OF COURSE- would I be over-expecting? I mean, at this point, I'm expecting Norgard-meets-Sallinen-meetsNature-meets-Sibelius-meets-SuperCoolSounds-meets-YourHighestExpectationsFulfilled,... so, I mean, I certainly don't want to pick the "wrong" work to blow my mind,... and, there's tooooo many CDs now, for the makings of a CDCDCD rash, a rabbit hole,... so,...



I'd be willing to try the No.10 disc (with Cello Concerto?), and then one or two of these huge later works, 11-16,... Sallinen-Norgard-Aho Axis?


I'm still unclear about 11-16,... the task seems overwhelming... and expensive!!!!$$$$

[snyprrr]

I have just applied my Patented Scientific Method to Aho's Discography, and Channeled all the Reviews, and blah blah, and I believe I can tell you what would be the Best Aho-

1) First, I've concluded that Symphony No.5 is the Monster here, and I do believe I had that Ondine disc, and remember a 30 minute single slab of non-stop density and loudness. And , then, everyone is waiting for the Symphony No.6 to come out, maybe this?

2) Then, it appears like a toss-up between Nos. 8 & 10, two more huge behemoths, but, broken up by movements.

3) The general Reviews for 11-15 have left me somewhat colder

4) The Cello Concerto emerges as something I'd like to hear. MI mentioned some great Flute Concerto, and also Clarinet, and,... what else here?


Frankly, for me, I think that's it. I might have let go of the Ondine disc because, though I may have appreciated the 5th, I can understand why I wouldn't want to be hearing it all the time. And then, the 7th isn't what we're looking for, so, my future with Aho probably lies with the CC, or Nos. 8 or 10.


Class Dismissed

[lescamil]

Why not just take the plunge and listen to it all on eclassical.com or YouTube for nothing? Your preliminary reactions to the pieces without hearing them aren't really spot on...

I gave another listen to the 6th symphony today. It's definitely a monster, taking ideas from the 5th symphony a bit further. It leaves me puzzled, which I am not sure is a good or a bad thing. Maybe I'll post a detailed review soon...

[CRCulver]

I gave another listen to the 6th symphony today. It's definitely a monster, taking ideas from the 5th symphony a bit further. It leaves me puzzled, which I am not sure is a good or a bad thing. Maybe I'll post a detailed review soon...

Is that a radio recording you have? I've heard a rumour that the reason that the Sixth hasn't appeared on BIS is because Robert von Bahr considers it unrecordable, there's just too damn much going on.

[lescamil]

Yeah, I have a radio recording, probably of the premiere, of Jorma Panula conducting the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra. Too damn much going on? Unrecordable? I don't know about that. There are moments where it seems downright overwhelming, but it's nothing like I haven't heard before, though, and these moments where there are lots of layers are mostly in the first movement. The other movements (I think I counted two more but it is hard to determine) feature small groups of soloists more and the texture is much thinner. A translation of the program notes for this piece reveals that it is subtitled his Sinfonia Concertante No. 2 (oddly enough, his 9th symphony was at one point called his Sinfonia Concertante No. 2).

[relm1]

Yeah, I have a radio recording, probably of the premiere, of Jorma Panula conducting the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra. Too damn much going on? Unrecordable? I don't know about that. There are moments where it seems downright overwhelming, but it's nothing like I haven't heard before, though, and these moments where there are lots of layers are mostly in the first movement. The other movements (I think I counted two more but it is hard to determine) feature small groups of soloists more and the texture is much thinner. A translation of the program notes for this piece reveals that it is subtitled his Sinfonia Concertante No. 2 (oddly enough, his 9th symphony was at one point called his Sinfonia Concertante No. 2).

I have it from a reliable source that there are plans to record the Symphony No. 6 but BIS hasn't found an orchestra for the task since it needs substantially larger forces that Sinfonia Lahti.

[lescamil]

I have it from a reliable source that there are plans to record the Symphony No. 6 but BIS hasn't found an orchestra for the task since it needs substantially larger forces that Sinfonia Lahti.

I've heard that same rumor. The forces required are: 4344, 1 heckelphone/4332, 1 baritone horn/12, strings

Now, that is large, but it is still not "substantially larger" than what has already been recorded in the part, particularly the 12th symphony. I think there is something else we are missing here.

[snyprrr]

Why not just take the plunge and listen to it all on eclassical.com or YouTube for nothing? Your preliminary reactions to the pieces without hearing them aren't really spot on...

I gave another listen to the 6th symphony today. It's definitely a monster, taking ideas from the 5th symphony a bit further. It leaves me puzzled, which I am not sure is a good or a bad thing. Maybe I'll post a detailed review soon...

What would be your Top3 Aho Picks?

Am I wrong just to declare that Sallinen > Aho?,... as far as what I want,.. which is... mm,... let me get back to you,...

Maybe I'm feeling Aho is "too much"? I'm not sure I'd make it through the whooole Cycle, especially 11-16...

Basically, it's either buyBuyBUY!! some Aho, or just get the Sallinen Box. I get the feeling most everyone would go with the Sallinen Box?

[lescamil]

I easily like Aho more than Sallinen. I haven't heard many pieces by Sallinen that have really grabbed me.

Top 3 Aho picks? That is too hard, not with his body of work. However, I would say that these disks are a good place to start:

http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-CD-1316
http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-CD-1066
http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-1866

I think that the selection is very broad here, since you get a few of his different periods represented here. I especially think that the piano concerto no. 2 is one of the best piano concertos of the last little while and had to include that CD. The 4th symphony is from his earlier style, and I think it is the best of those early symphonies.

The now 16 symphony cycle is pretty rewarding. I don't think it is tiring to get through, even if some of them are quite long. The 16th is the longest, I believe, clocking in at just under 55 minutes. The 10th and 12th are around 45 or so. None of them feel overly long to me.

EDIT: I forgot that his 8th was 50 minutes. It's broken up into many smaller movements and hardly feels its length (in the best way). The 4th is around 42 minutes, the 13th is almost 40, etc. He might have 16 symphonies, but most are quite substantial.

[snyprrr]

I easily like Aho more than Sallinen. I haven't heard many pieces by Sallinen that have really grabbed me.

Top 3 Aho picks? That is too hard, not with his body of work. However, I would say that these disks are a good place to start:

http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-CD-1316
http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-CD-1066
http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-1866

I think that the selection is very broad here, since you get a few of his different periods represented here. I especially think that the piano concerto no. 2 is one of the best piano concertos of the last little while and had to include that CD. The 4th symphony is from his earlier style, and I think it is the best of those early symphonies.

The now 16 symphony cycle is pretty rewarding. I don't think it is tiring to get through, even if some of them are quite long. The 16th is the longest, I believe, clocking in at just under 55 minutes. The 10th and 12th are around 45 or so. None of them feel overly long to me.

EDIT: I forgot that his 8th was 50 minutes. It's broken up into many smaller movements and hardly feels its length (in the best way). The 4th is around 42 minutes, the 13th is almost 40, etc. He might have 16 symphonies, but most are quite substantial.

Yesterday, I YT'd most of each of these, in order:

Sallinen 3:= eh, not as I remembered... not what I'm looking for...

Aho 8: = oh noes, this is the organ symphony,... sorry,... next....

Sallinen 5:= ok, a little better than 3, but, mm, mmmaybe, but not really what I'm looking for...

Holmboe  8:= eh, no, too old fashioned... again, like Sallinen 3, just stormy post-Sibelius that I'm not looking for...

Sallinen 7:= more interesting...

Aho Cello Concerto:= noisy as fffffffffuuuuuu.....

Englund 'Blackbird':= ok, if it's going to be old fashioned, this is more what I like...

Blomdahl 'Facets':= ok, liked a little better than 'Blackbird'...

Aho 13:= eh,... not feeling the opening...

Aho 15:= HEEELLO!!!!! how surprising that I responded most to such a late work...

Nordgren 3:= YESSS!!! now this is what I was looking for!!!



So, the last two were most where I am in my post-Norgard world. IJUST CAN'T GO BACK and be impressed with Sallinen... yea, I was wrong there,... and now I certainly don't care about that Box...Norgard's Nature Music renders a lot of this just old fashioned to me... oy, and I forgot that earlier Aho could be soooo loud and noisy!!!! aye aye...

oh, btw-

Norgard 1:= ok, interesting,... not quite there, but somewhat interesting...


so, right now, Nordgren is the interesting one for me.... what of Norholm and Nordheim??? LOL!!!!! Norwahl??? LOL

[Wieland]

I have a recording of number 6. I'll have to relisten to the work and possibly plop it up on YouTube so others can hear it. From what I remember, it was very similar to 5, in that it was a large transitional work that doesn't quite fit into the mold that the other symphonies around it established.

I would greatly appreciate if you do that. I have contacted BIS a year ago and they say they will record it but not any time soon. After listening to Sym 5 I wonder what could be even more difficult and challenging. I have all other symphonies so this would also complete my collection

[snyprrr]

I would greatly appreciate if you do that. I have contacted BIS a year ago and they say they will record it but not any time soon. After listening to Sym 5 I wonder what could be even more difficult and challenging. I have all other symphonies so this would also complete my collection

what do you recommend to the skeptic?

[Wieland]

what do you recommend to the skeptic?

If you are a skeptic, it means that you know already some of his music. Sym 2-4 I would recommend to someone who just starts and who likes DSCH. If you are not interested in that period I would start with 10 or later. Actually I probably would recommend to start with 15 since you also get the tone-poem Minea and a double-bass concerto. If you don't like anything of this, just stop trying. Then Aho may not be your cup of tea.
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