"100 Greatest Symphonies"

[mn dave]

Well, this is the "100 Greatest" list which obligatorily includes all nine Beethoven symphonies, right?

Are all Beethoven's nine equally great?  Probably not, right?

Let's say one of the nine is the least great;  for discussion's sake, let's say the first is the least great of the nine.

The least of Beethoven's nine, his first symphony, is necessarily greater than . . . all but 91 of the other symphonies in the world?

I am in some little doubt on that question.

You could drop the first two and I guess I wouldn't care much.

[karlhenning]

You could drop the first two and I guess I wouldn't care much.

Spoken like a gentleman.  Likeable pieces, but it isn't as if the Opp. 21 & 36 command spots at the World's Greatest table.

[greg]

Norgard: 3

I'd like it if his first were included in the list, even though the 3rd might be the most celebrated..... i still feel his first is possibly his best, an all-out "austere" symphony that's nearly post-romantic in style.

[Thekherham]

Oh, I hate lists. They are so subjective. And of course that brings out the critic in everyone. Maybe I don't like what you like, and vice-versa.
I like all of Beethoven's symphonies. They can be in my top 100 any time (if I wanted to make up a Top 100 list, that is... which I don't).

[karlhenning]

Oh, I have no trouble with a list of 100 great symphonies.

How large the pool of great symphones must be, to need a restrictive list of 100 greatest, on the other hand . . . .

[mn dave]

also, are there even that many symphonies that could be considered truly great to begin with? i find most to be quite cumbersome & portentous to be honest...

Those are the ones after Beethoven. 

[mn dave]

Beethoven wouldn't even make my list. 

You're killin' me, man.

[Thekherham]

It might be easier to make a list of "100 Greatest Symphonies" than it is to think of one greatest symphony.

And how can these hundred by the "greatest?" Does that mean the next hundred are just "great"?

[Thekherham]

Beethoven wouldn't even make my list. 

And what's wrong with Beethoven?

And if not Beethoven, then what would make your list?

And I would bet you'd name some composers I can't stand.

[karlhenning]

And what's wrong with Beethoven?

Nothing wrong with Beethoven;  there are just other composers whose music he prefers.

And I would bet you'd name some composers I can't stand.

Oh, that defiant blind bigotry is what hurts, isn't it?  At least when James says he prefers other composers, he has actually heard Beethoven.

(At least, I think he has . . . .)

[Don]

And what's wrong with Beethoven?

And if not Beethoven, then what would make your list?

And I would bet you'd name some composers I can't stand.

That's okay - you don't have to listen to them.

[George]

Spoken like a gentleman.  Likeable pieces, but it isn't as if the Opp. 21 & 36 command spots at the World's Greatest table.

Apollo revealed to me the 101 greatest symphony:

An otherwise blank piece of music paper that Beethoven once sneezed on.

The work is called Fur Ragweed.

[karlhenning]

A revelation, Dear Friends! 

[Grazioso]

reminds me... Ligeti or Stockhausen dies and who's still on the cover of all the classical music rags? Why it's Mozart, Beethoven, Puccini etc. Zzzzz Ugh. It's like; "OK, they did some great stuff we get it, enough already!", "Let's cover & expose more territory." While the recently deceased composer gets a little blurb on page 42...

I agree with some of what you're saying, yet you do have a picture of Bach--one of those crusty "greats" if ever there were one--as your avatar

[mn dave]

you can say im a bit of a JSB fan, and he is rather under exposed in terms of actual concert performance time - considering his towering stature. People pay lip service but he is more revered in name than celebrated in the concert hall. While Mozart & Beethoven (YAWN) and safe romantic stuff is overestimated and dominating...

The people want romance. 

[karlhenning]

you can say im a bit of a JSB fan, and he is rather under exposed in terms of actual concert performance time . . . .

Or, one could argue that actually he gets the right balance of concert performance;  the great bulk of his music he wrote not for 'concert performance', but for church use — where he is still performed with frequency.

[karlhenning]

The people want romance. 

Certainly not that yecchy modern stuff!

[mn dave]

Certainly not that yecchy modern stuff!

Oh, hell no.

[Kullervo]

Of course you wouldn't admit it even to yourself, James, but your tastes in "the contemporary" are pretty narrow and still under the influence of the Boulezian teleological view of music history, which, if the music of the 20th Century has taught us anything, is not, nor was it ever tenable. There was also a huge amount of coverage on the respective deaths of Ligeti and Stockhausen, even in non-classical music magazines. Would they have this sort of cross-cultural impact if they weren't hugely popular? Of course, I am probably mistaken in expecting a response other than the usual short shrift we get from you. 

[drogulus]

also, are there even that many symphonies that could be considered truly great to begin with? i find most to be quite cumbersome & portentous to be honest...

      "Could be" invites a generous, inclusive interpretation, doesn't it? Now, if you said there are 1,761 truly great symphonies I'd be very doubtful. But 100 doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Start with Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Schubert, and Brahms. Even if you throw the little ones back you're more than halfway there! And you haven't even got to the 20th century. No, I think 100 is easy.