"100 Greatest Symphonies"

[Kullervo]

I don't have much use for a list that can't find room for Honegger's Liturgique.

I think No. 4 gets my pick (I just love that lilting theme of the first movement).

[karlhenning]

I'll have to give it another listen. Unfortunately, the first time through didn't get me looking forward to future listens.

FWIW, Howard, Hanson leaves me cold, as well.

[karlhenning]

Yes, how impossible to imagine Beethoven's 9 symphonies all making the top 100.

Imagination is not the faculty involved in that sort of laziness.

[PSmith08]

I think No. 4 gets my pick (I just love that lilting theme of the first movement).

Heck, if all nine of Beethoven's can go on, why not all five of Honegger's? They're not super-long, anyway.

[Kullervo]

Heck, if all nine of Beethoven's can go on, why not all five of Honegger's? They're not super-long, anyway.

I wonder if more people have heard Mozart's first five than Honegger's. He is criminally underrated -- even Harold Schonberg dismisses him in Lives, essentially calling his music dated. Why, it's no more dated than Ravel or Vaughan Williams.

[quintett op.57]

I put it in the beginner's area to perhaps give a newbie something to ponder.

You don't like this list, M?

In this case I would suggest not to give 7 symphonies by Mozart, 8 by Beethoven and 9 by Haydn.
The last 2 are my favourite composers, but it would be better to choose 100 composers, I think.

Beginners have to get introduced to Strauss, Atterberg, Pettersson, Lalo, Sammartini, Langgaard, CPE Bach...

and no ranking please!

[PSmith08]

I wonder if more people have heard Mozart's first five than Honegger's. He is criminally underrated -- even Harold Schonberg dismisses him in Lives, essentially calling his music dated. Why, it's no more dated than Ravel or Vaughan Williams.

That would be a close contest, but I would say that more people have probably heard Mozart's first five than Honegger's. If you own a complete set of Mozart's, sooner or later curiosity will get to you. I doubt that every art-music aficionado owns much Honegger at all, much less a complete set of his symphonies (even though the five plus Pacific 231 and Rugby can be got ridiculously cheap in pretty solid interpretations). In that case, just by the numbers Mozart is probably going to win. 

I would say that Pacific 231 comes about as close to "mainstream" as Honegger gets, and that's not saying a whole lot.

[karlhenning]

I would say that Pacific 231 comes about as close to "mainstream" as Honegger gets, and that's not saying a whole lot.

More than Le roi David?

[PSmith08]

More than Le roi David?

Arkiv lists 17 recordings for Pacific and 6 for David. I know that that is, by no means, a great way to determine popularity, but it seems to be as good as anything else - short of combing through calendars and counting performances since composition, which would take far too long.

[Monsieur Croche]

Stipulating that each symphony on the list has to be by a different composer would make for a much more interesting read, no doubt about that. Unfortunately, my music collection is nowhere near large enough to enable the construction of such a list. For instance, I have no Italian and Spanish composers on the list, and very few American or British. Nothing on Teresa's list. 

The following is my list, which is really a most unusual creature: Heavily informed by personal preference, but also much concerned with critical consensus and popularity, as well as the need for variety. Some items are included due to their novelty factor. In other words, the list should not be regarded as indicative of anything serious, but rather a mere attempt by a music enthusiast with too much time at hand to have some fun. Here goes:

(* indicates my top pick when two or more symphonies by the same composer are listed).

Mozart: Symphony No. 35 in D Major, "Haffner"; Symphony No. 40 in G Minor; Symphony No. 41 in C Major, "Jupiter"*
Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 in E Flat Major, "Eroica"*; Symphony No. 6 in F Major, "Pastorale"; Symphony No. 7 in A Major; Symphony No. 9 in D Minor, "Choral"
Schubert: Symphony No. 8 in B Minor, "Unfinished"; Symphony No. 9 in C Major*
Mendelssohn: Symphony No. 4 in A Major, "Italian"
Schumann: Symphony No. 3 in E Flat Major, "Rhenish"*; Symphony No. 4 in D Minor (1941 version)
Brahms: Symphony No. 1 in C Minor; Symphony No. 3 in F Major; Symphony No. 4 in E Minor*
Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 in E Flat Major, "Romantic"; Symphony No. 7 in E Major; Symphony No. 8 in C Minor*; Symphony No. 9 in D Minor, "Unfinished"
Mahler: Symphony No. 1 in D Major, "Titan"; Symphony No. 5 in C Sharp Minor; Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major, "Symphony of a Thousand"; Symphony No. 9 in D Major*
R. Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
Hindemith: Mathis der Maler

Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique*; Harold en Italie
Alkan: Symphony for Solo Piano (from 12 Etudes in Minor Keys)
Franck: Symphony in D Minor
Chausson: Symphony in B Flat Major
Lalo: Symphony in G Minor
Bizet: Symphony in C Major
Dukas: Symphony in C Major
Saint-Saens: Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, "Organ"
D'Indy: Symphony on a French Mountain Air
Debussy: La Mer, three symphonic sketches – Can't resist
Roussel: Symphony No. 1 in D Minor, "Le poème de la forêt"; Symphony No. 3 in G Minor*
Schmitt: Symphony No. 2 
Magnard: Symphony No. 3 in B Flat Minor; Symphony No. 4 in C Sharp Minor*
Tournemire: Symphony No. 3 in D Major, "Moscou"; Symphony No. 8, "Le triomphe de la mort"
Dupre: Symphony in G Minor for Organ and Orchestra
Honegger: Symphony No. 2 in D Major; Symphony No. 3, "Liturgique"*
Milhaud: Symphony No. 8, "Rhodanienne"
Francaix: Symphony No. 3
Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony
Dutilleux: Symphony No. 2, "Le Double"

Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 5 in E Minor; Symphony No. 6 in B Minor, "Pathetique"*
Rachmaninov: The Bells
Borodin: Symphony No. 2 in B Minor
Taneyev: Symphony No. 4 in C Minor
Stravinsky: Symphony in C; Symphony in Three Movements*
Myaskovsky: Symphony No. 6 in E Flat Minor
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 1 in D Major, "Classical"; Symphony No. 6 in E Flat Minor;  Symphony No. 7 in C Sharp Minor*
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 in D Minor; Symphony No. 8 in C Minor, "Stalingrad"*; Symphony No. 13 in B Flat Minor, "Babi Yar"
Silvestrov: Symphony No. 5

Berwald: Symphony No. 3 in C Major, "Sinfonie Singulière"
Sibelius: Symphony No. 4 in A Minor; Symphony No. 6 in D Minor; Symphony No. 7 in C Major*
Alfven: Symphony No. 4 in C Minor, "From The Outermost Skerries"
Atterberg: Symphony No. 6 in C Major, "Dollar"
Stenhammar: Symphony No. 2 in G Minor
Nielsen: Symphony No. 2, "The Four Temperaments"*; Symphony No. 3, "Sinfonia espansiva"; Symphony No. 4, "The Inextinguishable"
Pettersson: Symphony No. 7
Rautavaara: Symphony No. 7, "Angel of Light"

Copland: Symphony No. 3*; Symphony for Organ and Orchestra
Ives: Holidays Symphony
Bernstein: Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety"*; Symphony No. 3, "Kaddish"
Harris: Symphony No. 3
Rochberg: Symphony No. 5
Rorem: Symphony No. 1

Elgar: Symphony No. 2 in E Flat Major
Walton: Symphony No. 1 in B Flat Minor
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 3, "Pastoral"; Symphony No. 6 in E Minor*; Symphony No. 9 in E Minor

Dvorak: Symphony No. 7 in D Minor; Symphony No. 8 in G Major*; Symphony No. 9 in E Minor, "From The New World"
Suk: Symphony in C Minor, "Asrael"

Szymanowski: Symphony No. 3, "Song of the Night"
Gorecki: Symphony No. 3, "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs"

Lilburn: Symphony No. 2

McPhee: Symphony No. 2, "Pastorale"

Tan Dun: Heaven Earth Mankind

[drogulus]

    The list looks like a popularity contest. It also seems dated. The choices for Mahler, Sibelius, and Vaughan Williams look like they might have been made from an old CD sales chart. It's not really a terrible list for beginners since many of the choices will be on any list, but it lacks diversity.
     
    Monsieur Croche , I think your list better serves the purpose.

[Grazioso]

A few more:

Pärt: 3
Diamond: 2
Hovhaness: 6 "Celestial Gate" or 50 "Mount St. Helens"
Fibich: any of the three are representative and enjoyable
Madetoja: 2 or 3 (both excellent and indicative of different sides of the composer)
Norgard: 3
Bax: 6
Mathias: 3
Hanson: 2 "Romantic"
Rorem: 3
Martinu: haven't heard them all yet, but I like 1 the best so far
Korngold: F sharp
Zemlinsky: Lyric

Some other names to consider: Gernsheim, Rott, Chavez, Farrenc, Huber, Wm. Schuman, Alice Mary Smith, Aho, Englund--the list goes on and on.

[mn dave]

It's not really a terrible list for beginners since many of the choices will be on any list, but it lacks diversity.

Methinks it's diverse enough for a beginner. Better than listing a bunch of second- and third-stringers.

[karlhenning]

Only the list includes second-string Beethoven, which should yield place to non-Beethoven first-string symphonies.

[mn dave]

Only the list includes second-string Beethoven, which should yield place to non-Beethoven first-string symphonies.

Says you. 

[karlhenning]

Says you. 

Sure 

[mn dave]

And I agree with him, not all Beethoven is first-string ...his output varies in quality considerably, he's so overhyped (like Mozart) that lots of people think since his name is attached to it, everything they did has be the greatest thing ever, the highest form of expression ever created!

Well, bad Beethoven is better than a lot of other stuff.

Its so lazy, narrow-minded (& short-sighted) to take the most popular composers and dump all their works into a list as being "the greatest", while neglecting so much else that's better or just a good.

Better? *laughs uncontrollably*

Where are the different voices and choices? Diversity? Variety?

I don't think we need to lay the diversity on the poor beginners. Not at first. Give them the cream of the crop, then they can explore whatever they'd like.

It's reminds me... Ligeti or Stockhausen dies and who's still on the cover of all the classical music rags? Why it's Mozart, Beethoven, Puccini etc. Zzzzz Ugh. It's like; "OK, they did some great stuff we get it, enough already!", "Let's cover & expose more territory." While the recently deceased composer gets a little blurb on page 42...

Over-exposure bugs me as well, but then again, I'm not a beginner.

[mn dave]

Oh yes, better!. Way better. Believe it...

I really can't.

[mn dave]

A lot has happened since Beethoven did his thing, I guess it's time for you to do some catching up.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of that mess.

[karlhenning]

Well, this is the "100 Greatest" list which obligatorily includes all nine Beethoven symphonies, right?

Are all Beethoven's nine equally great?  Probably not, right?

Let's say one of the nine is the least great;  for discussion's sake, let's say the first is the least great of the nine.

The least of Beethoven's nine, his first symphony, is necessarily greater than . . . all but 91 of the other symphonies in the world?

I am in some little doubt on that question.