Schumann's Shoebox

Started by aquablob, April 07, 2007, 08:11:59 AM

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vers la flamme

I love everyone's enthusiasm defending the Schumann Piano Concerto  ;D Makes me want to listen to it again, so I think I will after work.

Jo498

My point was less personal enthusiasm (I think one could argue for the 2nd and 3rd movements being less interesting although I am not sure if a naive listener would suspect that the first movement was originally conceived as a self-contained piece) but that the Schumann is as well-loved and as frequently played as e.g. the Grieg for similar reasons, i.e. being catchy and effective. (I also clearly prefer it to the Grieg but the latter is a bit of a bête noir for me as I find it rather shallow although I would never doubt its effectiveness and tunefulness.)
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Jo498 on November 04, 2022, 04:22:11 AM
My point was less personal enthusiasm (I think one could argue for the 2nd and 3rd movements being less interesting although I am not sure if a naive listener would suspect that the first movement was originally conceived as a self-contained piece)

Well, Schumann managed to organically link the slow mvt and the finale with the first mvt, witness (among other features) the transition between them (slow and finale, that is) which is actually a modified recapitulation of the beginning of first mvt, so even seasoned listeners might be tricked.

Quotebut that the Schumann is as well-loved and as frequently played as e.g. the Grieg for similar reasons, i.e. being catchy and effective. (I also clearly prefer it to the Grieg but the latter is a bit of a bête noir for me as I find it rather shallow although I would never doubt its effectiveness and tunefulness.)

I don't think shallow is the right term. The Grieg is certainly less personal and intimate than the Schumann but it's so on purpose. Schumann was about psychological, inner landscapes while Grieg was about outer, physical landscapes. The former depicted his soul, the latter his country. That they both succeeded big time, first and foremost musically, is testified by their huge popularity with pianists, audiences and critics alike.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

Mandryka

#583
Really enjoying the op 90 songs, Ankatholisches Gedicht. Listening to Schreier, which is very well recorded to boot. This is, I think, a lateish masterpiece.  It's had one early champion with Souzay - I'll check it out later.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: Mandryka on November 23, 2022, 12:49:30 AMReally enjoying the op 90 songs, Ankatholisches Gedicht. Listening to Schreier, which is very well recorded to boot. This is, I think, a lateish masterpiece.  It's had one early champion with Souzay - I'll check it out later.

And this seems exceptional

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Florestan

Quote from: Mandryka on November 23, 2022, 12:49:30 AMReally enjoying the op 90 songs, Ankatholisches Gedicht. Listening to Schreier, which is very well recorded to boot. This is, I think, a lateish masterpiece.  It's had one early champion with Souzay - I'll check it out later.

Ankatholisches Gedicht --- what do you mean?
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on November 24, 2022, 12:56:44 AMAnkatholisches Gedicht --- what do you mean?

Yeah I have no clue either. Anti-Catholic? Hyperion liner notes say the exact opposite.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Scion7

Quote from: Florestan on November 24, 2022, 12:56:44 AMAnkatholisches Gedicht --- what do you mean?

Requiem: "Old Catholic poem of which Abelard's beloved, Heloise, is credited as the author."
(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Madiel

Quote from: Scion7 on November 24, 2022, 02:34:52 AMRequiem: "Old Catholic poem of which Abelard's beloved, Heloise, is credited as the author."

Yes. But the word used, Ankatholisches, means anti-Catholic.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on November 24, 2022, 02:39:13 AMYes. But the word used, Ankatholisches, means anti-Catholic.

It's not even correctly written, it should have been Unkatholisches. It means non-Catholic, though --anti-catholic would be anti-katolisches.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

Scion7

Quote from: Florestan on November 24, 2022, 12:56:44 AMAnkatholisches Gedicht --- what do you mean?

the poem, roughly translated to English:

REQUIEM [ALTKATHOLISCHES GEDICHT] (OLD CATHOLIC POEM)
Rest from painful toils and hot glowing love;
The after blissful association
bore desire,
has gone
Enter the Savior's tabernacle.
Bright stars shine for the righteous in the cell of the grave,
To him who himself will appear as a star of the night,
If he his
Lord sees in splendor of heaven.
Be intercessors, holy souls, Holy Spirit, do not let comfort be lacking; Do you hear? cheering sounds, tones of celebration,
In it the beautiful angelic harp sings:
Rest from painful toils and hot glowing love;
The after blissful association
bore desire,
has gone
Enter the Savior's tabernacle.

- note "alt" is "old" ...
(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Madiel

Quote from: Scion7 on November 24, 2022, 03:06:21 AMthe poem, roughly translated to English:

REQUIEM [ALTKATHOLISCHES GEDICHT] (OLD CATHOLIC POEM)
Rest from painful toils and hot glowing love;
The after blissful association
bore desire,
has gone
Enter the Savior's tabernacle.
Bright stars shine for the righteous in the cell of the grave,
To him who himself will appear as a star of the night,
If he his
Lord sees in splendor of heaven.
Be intercessors, holy souls, Holy Spirit, do not let comfort be lacking; Do you hear? cheering sounds, tones of celebration,
In it the beautiful angelic harp sings:
Rest from painful toils and hot glowing love;
The after blissful association
bore desire,
has gone
Enter the Savior's tabernacle.

- note "alt" is "old" ...

Yes, it is indeed. But that's not the word that was supplied to us.

Also, that only applies to the final Requiem, not the whole of op.90.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on November 24, 2022, 03:16:06 AMYes, it is indeed. But that's not the word that was supplied to us.

Of course there is all the difference in the world between Altkatolisches and Unkatholisches.
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

Scion7

Quote from: Mandryka on November 23, 2022, 12:49:30 AMReally enjoying the op 90 songs, Ankatholisches Gedicht.

As you are lover of the great masters and supporter of the return of Transylvania to Hungary, I've been attempting to cover for your gaffe, but, come man, you must get in here!  :P  ;D
(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Mandryka

I shall report that comment about Transylvania to my friend Petru. From Romania.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Florestan

Quote from: Mandryka on November 24, 2022, 07:30:20 AMI shall report that comment about Transylvania to my friend Petru. From Romania.

Hah!  8)
"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

Scion7

(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Mandryka

#597


Listening to different performances of Stille Tränen on Spotify, my ears pricked up on Prégardien and Gees. This is a song which needs an excellent pianist as well as an excellent singer and Prégardien/Gees fit the bill. They take Stille Tränen unusually slowly, and I think that's a good idea. This looks to me like a Kerner Lieder worth getting to know.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Possibly worthy doctorate on the Kerner lieder, possibly not. Here's the link for when I'm in the mood to find out

https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/concern/dissertations/5q47rp09d
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

DavidW

I listened to the new Barenboim cycle.  All of a sudden I saw why the other cycle mysteriously vanished from the streaming platforms.  Anyway, this new recording was good but not revelatory.  Would like to sometime listen to that earlier set.