Schumann's Shoebox

Started by aquablob, April 07, 2007, 08:11:59 AM

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Atriod

What are your favorite less popular Schumann solo keyboard works? After 20 years I am finally starting to really love Schumann's more popular piano music. Gesänge der Frühe and Geistervariationen were the only two I immediately loved.

Mandryka

Quote from: Zauberschloss on August 27, 2023, 11:15:55 AMWhat are your favorite less popular Schumann solo keyboard works? After 20 years I am finally starting to really love Schumann's more popular piano music. Gesänge der Frühe and Geistervariationen were the only two I immediately loved.

Op 111 Fantasiestucke
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Forgot a good one, the sonata op 118/2.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Oh by the way, I've been really enjoying Le Sage playing these things. The op 23 Nachtstucke too.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

lordlance


I found a terrific performance of the Fourth from an unexpected performance - Maxim Emelyanychev conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra

Anyone looking for a new Schumann 4 should give it a shot.
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Jo498

Did anyone here recommend the ECM Schiff double set (live Zurich 1999) with Humoreske, Novelletten and Piano sonata #3 f minor?
I cannot find clear and direct references (too bad at search refinement, I guess) but GMG is the most likely candidate why I put this on a wishlist.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Brian

Since everyone is talking about Schumann symphonies in the Brahms thread, I thought I'd try to start something here.

Symphony No. 4: original or revised version? Explain your choice  8)

BWV 1080

Quote from: Brian on October 31, 2023, 07:02:42 AMSince everyone is talking about Schumann symphonies in the Brahms thread, I thought I'd try to start something here.

Symphony No. 4: original or revised version? Explain your choice  8)

Mahler orchestrations for all,  modest changes better suited to modern symphonic instruments

Maestro267

Blame your fellow moderator for derailing the Brahms thread. Also when I see "Mahler orchestrations" I'm expecting like 8 horns, a steamroller of percussion, organ etc. Everything AND the kitchen sink. Turning Schumann symphonies into The World.

Scion7

The first 'wanderer' version, by far. Even Brahms - his disciple - saw the problem, and thankfully, restored the work. Now we can hear the uncluttered work in all its excellence.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Scion7

When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Jo498

Most of the great conductors/recordings are of the revised version of the 4th, I think. So assume that this is the one I know much better and think of as Schumann's 4th (although I have Gardiner who recorded both versions, I believe).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

DavidW

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 31, 2023, 09:34:27 AMBlame your fellow moderator for derailing the Brahms thread.

What?  No, that was all Florestan.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 31, 2023, 09:34:27 AMBlame your fellow moderator for derailing the Brahms thread. Also when I see "Mahler orchestrations" I'm expecting like 8 horns, a steamroller of percussion, organ etc. Everything AND the kitchen sink. Turning Schumann symphonies into The World.

According to what I recall reading, it was the opposite. Schumann was not confident of his skills as a conductor and tended to keep textures thick so that the work would drive itself forward. It requires lightening.

I think Harnoncourt's set is superb, sparkling, and he does both 4ths, (one with a different orchestra).
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

lordlance

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 31, 2023, 09:34:27 AMBlame your fellow moderator for derailing the Brahms thread. Also when I see "Mahler orchestrations" I'm expecting like 8 horns, a steamroller of percussion, organ etc. Everything AND the kitchen sink. Turning Schumann symphonies into The World.
Yeah. Disappointing that was not the case. Telling the differences Mahler made is hard honestly. A Shchedrin-esque reorchestration of the Schumann symphonies would be very interesting.
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Madiel

I own the Gardiner recordings and on that basis I see no reason to tinker with the orchestrations, at least not on the grounds they are "flawed". The issue is the way in which instruments have changed in the meantime. Schumann can't be criticised for not writing for instruments that didn't yet exist.

I note more generally this is one of the situations where I believe the period instrument movement has real benefits, in restoring the intended balance between different instruments in an orchestra.

As to the original question about which version of the 4th symphony to prefer, I don't really have strong views. I don't feel I know the work well enough yet. Perhaps tonight's listening project...
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: DavidW on October 31, 2023, 03:10:19 PMWhat?  No, that was all Florestan.

I beg your pardon? The first post dealing exclusively with Schumann's symphonies was yours and was a harsh criticism on them. Did you really not see anyone coming to their defense?  ;D
When I'm creating at the piano, I tend to feel happy; but - the eternal dilemma - how can we be happy amid the unhappiness of others? I'd do everything I could to give everyone a moment of happiness. That's what's at the heart of my music. — Nino Rota

DavidW

Quote from: Florestan on November 01, 2023, 12:10:48 AMharsh criticism

Nah that is a mischaracterization.  Weakest doesn't mean weak.  Schumann is one of the greatest composers of the 19th century, I was just surprised that you would favor Schumann's symphonies because they pale in comparison to Brahms.

That is alright, you're probably just a closet Wagnerite! ;D

Anooj

Any opinions on the Israel Piano Trio recordings of his piano trios? JPC offers that set on a discount at the moment. Never explored those works before.

Florestan

Quote from: DavidW on November 01, 2023, 06:22:14 AMyou're probably just a closet Wagnerite! ;D

Nah, Wagner is too mellow for my taste. Give me Scelsi and Xennakis!  ;D
When I'm creating at the piano, I tend to feel happy; but - the eternal dilemma - how can we be happy amid the unhappiness of others? I'd do everything I could to give everyone a moment of happiness. That's what's at the heart of my music. — Nino Rota