Author Topic: Schumann's Shoebox  (Read 95821 times)

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Morigan

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2008, 09:18:12 AM »


Any thoughts?

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2008, 09:50:56 AM »


Any thoughts?

Excellent and sparkling performances, recommended!   You might as well go for the whole package, as Nos.1 & 3 aren't available separately.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2008, 10:06:21 AM »
Excellent and sparkling performances, recommended!   You might as well go for the whole package, as Nos.1 & 3 aren't available separately.


Thanks for pointing that out! I didn't know it was available. Decent price, too, from JPC.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2008, 10:15:22 AM »
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn't know it was available. Decent price, too, from JPC.

Sarge

What's more, it's currently on offer at mdt...  :)

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2008, 10:17:15 AM »
What's more, it's currently on offer at mdt...  :)
Go figure, they have it in Europe and Japan, just not in the US >:(
They should be ashamed of themselves here in the US for not making that available.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Morigan

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2008, 11:59:19 AM »
Same reaction as Sergeant here: I had no idea there was a complete set. But is it avaible in America?

Offline jwinter

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2008, 12:44:17 PM »
Amazon has the Chailly available for pre-order, shipping February 16

What I want to know is, what's the significance of the "Mahler Editions"?  To what extent did Mahler revise these?  I already have several versions of these symphonies in the standard versions --are we talking minor tweaking, or something more along the lines of what Mahler did with Beethoven 9?
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2008, 01:00:48 PM »
Amazon has the Chailly available for pre-order, shipping February 16

What I want to know is, what's the significance of the "Mahler Editions"?  To what extent did Mahler revise these?  I already have several versions of these symphonies in the standard versions --are we talking minor tweaking, or something more along the lines of what Mahler did with Beethoven 9?
Awhile ago M Forever posted a clip of the 1st movement of the 4th symphony with this conductor/ensemble/edition. All I can say is that the texture is more transparent. The woodwind solos are much more prominent and there appears to be less doubling of melodies. Now I don't hear anything drastic. I think Mahler touched up some of the dynamics and scoring in a delicate and tasteful kind of way. You know what you hear? Think about a typical Mahler symphony with a large orchestra but keeping the chambermusic kind of texture and apply that to Schumann and you get a pretty good approximation.

Gustav

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2008, 04:43:50 PM »
Mahler re-orchestrations are more chamber like, in other words "lighter" than most other versions. Mahler also made certain "transitions" "smoother", just off the top of my head, I remember that he added a little decrescendo at the end of the first theme in the 3rd movement of Schumann's 4th(just before the woodwinds come in). Small things like that, some likes it, some are neutral, some don't.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 04:46:10 PM by Gustav »

Offline Que

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2008, 12:44:38 AM »
I'm looking for recommendations on recordings of Schumann's piano trios!

I already know the Beaux Arts Trio. And if a HIP recording exists (but not to my knowledge), I would be happy to hear about it.

Anyone? :)

Q
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 06:41:18 AM by Que »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #91 on: January 29, 2008, 06:01:11 AM »
Amazon has the Chailly available for pre-order, shipping February 16
What I want to know is, what's the significance of the "Mahler Editions"?  To what extent did Mahler revise these?

Other than the addition of a double chorus, organ and bells to the finale of the Rhenish, the revisions are pretty discrete and tasteful, J.

Seriously, as PW noted, it's more a question of revising dynamics and thinning orchestration to make things more audible and/or more dramatic; for example, drastically cutting the trumpet and timpani parts in the outer movements of the Rhenish. He also does things like restoring Schumann's original notes to the horns and trumpets in the fanfares of the First (Schumann had changed them at the first rehearsal when he realized they sounded bad on valveless instruments). He reverts to Schumann's original intention and eliminates the outer movement repeats in the Fourth. In the Finale's concluding pages he adds high horns to spectacular effect. One change is particularly Mahlerlian, though: at bar 847 he has the trombones and horns play fff, Schalltrichter auf! (bells in the air). Reminiscent of the Resurrection.

The booklet that comes with the set has an extensive list of the changes Mahler made (five pages worth); too many to mention here. If you love Schumann (and Mahler), I think this is a must-have set. Just don't expect drastic changes. It still sounds like Schumann. Mahler was quite respectful of Schumann's original sound, and intentions.

Sarge
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 06:35:16 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Que

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #92 on: January 29, 2008, 06:47:41 AM »
If you love Schumann (and Mahler), I think this is a must-have set. Just don't expect drastic changes. It still sounds like Schumann. Mahler was quite respectful of Schumann's original sound, and intentions.

I guess Mahler realised that there was a gap between the original composition and and the orchestral performance practice of his own time. So, this would be kind of the opposite of HIP: adapting the composition to contemporary performance practices, instead of the other way around.

Q

Offline jwinter

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2008, 10:32:03 AM »
Thanks for the feedback on Mahler's revisions.  I don't have a big need for more Schumann right now -- I have Barenboim, Bernstein, Kubelik, Szell, and Zinman already -- but it sounds like the Chailly might have a spot on the shelf too, if the price is nice... : )
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

Offline Guido

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2008, 11:59:26 AM »
I've talked to a lot of cellists, and it seems that secretly many if not quite most prefer the Schumann cello concerto to the Dvorak. I am on the fence, but there is no question that it is one of the absolute pinncales of the repertory. It gets relatively few outings cmpared to its quality because its an extremely dense and 'no-heroic' work - its not going to bring an audience to its feet like the Dvorak will, but then of course Schumann is not trying to do that.

The violin concerto is another piece that I adore, and it may well be my favourite violin concerto (along with the Shostakovich violin concerto no.1 and Barber). So many musicians I have talked to don't even know of its existence!

Thinking about it Schumann may be my favourite romantic composer...
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #95 on: January 29, 2008, 01:12:47 PM »
Well, I just had my first exposure to Schumann's piano sonata # 1 in F sharp minor, Op. 11, and I was completely blown away by it!  WOW!   :)

Now you have to hear Grimaud:

"At 18 she is already a magnificent artist and I only hope that she manages to retain this degree of quality. Nothing is immature, and there is never a hint of display for display's sake. The Schumann F sharp Sonata is a tricky number. The lightning changes of pace and mood require the pianist to follow one manically excited passage with another that is full of heartfelt yearning, and yet still remain poised. Grimaud takes risks, and allied to her natural feeling for the larger musical forms, her mastery of every detail of the polyphonic writing is second to none. Maybe the Intermezzo section of the Scherzo could have done with more pomposity, but all the fast passages throughout the work come off with a rhythmic clarity that is never prissy, but integral to a thorough appreciation of the score."--Gramophone


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

ChamberNut

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2008, 05:36:17 AM »
Same reaction as Sergeant here: I had no idea there was a complete set. But is it avaible in America?

Figaro, I'm not sure if you got a hold of the Chailly complete set yet?  Just wanted to mention that I saw a set last night at the local McNally Robinson store, and it was $14.99 CDN

Do you have McNally Robinson stores in Quebec?

Morigan

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #97 on: February 14, 2008, 05:39:58 PM »
Figaro, I'm not sure if you got a hold of the Chailly complete set yet?  Just wanted to mention that I saw a set last night at the local McNally Robinson store, and it was $14.99 CDN

Do you have McNally Robinson stores in Quebec?

We don't have these stores I'm afraid... But wait, you saw the whole 4-symphony set for 15 bucks?? I'll try to find it :o

Actually, it's available for $15 on Amazon.ca but is says "5 to 8 weeks before shipping"... That's horrible. The Canadian Amazon is always late on everything and offers only 10% of what's available on Amazon.com :(

ChamberNut

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #98 on: February 15, 2008, 05:13:53 AM »
We don't have these stores I'm afraid... But wait, you saw the whole 4-symphony set for 15 bucks?? I'll try to find it :o

Actually, it's available for $15 on Amazon.ca but is says "5 to 8 weeks before shipping"... That's horrible. The Canadian Amazon is always late on everything and offers only 10% of what's available on Amazon.com :(

Figaro, you could probably try to order it from McNally Robinson directly "on-line"?  Unfortunately, I can't view this site at work since it's blocked (but I can view Amazon, go figure?) ::)

Try McNally Robinson

ChamberNut

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #99 on: December 04, 2008, 08:29:00 AM »
I'm looking for recommendations on recordings of Schumann's piano trios!

I already know the Beaux Arts Trio. And if a HIP recording exists (but not to my knowledge), I would be happy to hear about it.

Anyone? :)

Q

Que, I'm also looking for recommendations of Schumann's piano trios.  I did an inventory of my collection, and my Schumann collection needs an insurgence!   :)