Author Topic: Schumann's Shoebox  (Read 95991 times)

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #460 on: June 10, 2020, 02:34:50 AM »
I'm buggered if I can find a recording of the "Fest-Overture", or Rheinweinlied Overture (op.123) to listen to online.

You'd think that a composer as prominent as Schumann wouldn't have such gaps. There appears to be at least one recording in existence, maybe 2, but I can't find more than a brief sample online.
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Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #461 on: June 10, 2020, 05:04:14 AM »
I assume these might be the 2 you are referring to ?

https://www.allmusic.com/album/schumann-orchestral-works-mw0001831721
https://www.allmusic.com/album/schumann-piano-concerto-in-am-op54-mass-in-cm-op147-mw0001387022

Rummaged through Qobuz by work, opus number, performers and title variations for those 2 but no luck.

Nothing on hyperion. Nothing on JPC either. Presto doesn't even list that work in the full list under R. Schumann.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #462 on: June 10, 2020, 01:30:18 PM »
Yes, Allmusic is the only place I found something I think.
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Offline amw

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #463 on: June 10, 2020, 05:42:18 PM »
It's out of print so won't be available to hear anywhere, but I have a copy of the Maderna Piano Concerto/Mass/Rheinweinlied-Overture CD—let me know if you want it and I'll PM you. Sound quality is pretty good by Arkadia standards.

I assume the rarity of available recordings is a result of having to put together a choir and orchestra for a 6 1/2 minute piece, with the choir only singing for the last 1 1/2 minutes of that. But I'm surprised Sawallisch or someone else didn't bother to sight read through it as a disc filler while recording the Mass, Requiem, Szenen aus Goethes Faust etc.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 05:47:03 PM by amw »

Offline Madiel

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #464 on: June 10, 2020, 06:09:21 PM »
Thanks for the offer. To be honest I can do without, I'm just doing one of my gradual chronological explorations of a composer and was damn surprised that something with an opus number was missing.

I think you're right as to the cause of the rarity. It's something that has really struck me with composers in general - choral recordings are not that common in general, but especially when it's choir with orchestra. And this is despite there being a heck of a lot of repertoire available (especially from the 19th century, when choral singing was clearly a lot more popular than it is now). People come together for certain things like Beethoven's 9th and Handel's Messiah but there's not much evidence of anyone saying "hey, we could do this a lot more often and there's plenty of music out there to perform".
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #465 on: June 28, 2020, 07:45:26 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IX3qw2MWrD0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IX3qw2MWrD0</a>

This came up on rmcr, I thought it would be the sort of thing amw would appreciate. He's put a lot of stuff on youtube to explain his extraordinary interpretation -- I've not heard them yet.
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Offline Scion7

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #466 on: August 24, 2020, 01:03:42 AM »

Chandos' recording from 2000 by Schonwandt & the Danish National Radio Symphony and Choir, with Hanne Fischeras the princess (mezzo-soprano) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU_N5nLG8A



Published posthumously by Clara as Op.140, no-one would ever consider this superior to Des Sängers Fluch, but Vom Pagen und der Königstochter, 4 ballads for Soloists, Chorus & Orchestra has its moments. Schumann took the text from Emanuel Geibel's 'The Page and the King's Daughter' - modified it slightly here and there as required for his music - and spent some ten months composing it, possibly because he was already showing signs of the mental illness brought about almost certainly by the final stages of syphilis, and the 'immediate' setting to music he had spoken of to his friend Richard Pohl - who suggested the Geibel's poem - may have been delayed by fits of auditory hallucinations.

The tale is somewhat macabre, with murder and myth (water-creatures and so forth), and a harp made by a merman of the murdered boy's bones used in the final part to disrupt his princess's wedding (his former love) and to drive his murderer (the king) to madness . . .

IV. The rooms sparkle in the king's palace

Chorus
The rooms sparkle in the king's palace,
Come hither with flutes and violins;
The king's beautiful daughter
Is dancing her wedding dance in the palace.

Alto Solo
She is wearing the wreath of myrtles in her hair,
But she goes about mute and constrained;
Upon her breast she wears a blooming rose,
But her cheeks, they are so pale.

She is dancing with a foreign prince,
He wears royal purple and silk;
But more handsome, a thousand times more handsome was
The lad in page's attire.

Chorus
Hail! Hail to the bride! The bride! The noble bride!
Come hither with flutes and violins!

At the golden table twelve maidens stand
To serve the sparkling wine;
Twelve pages circle around the bridal pair
With flaming torches and wreaths.

Merman (from the distrance)
Ha, be still! Fine palace beside the sea,
Listen to the merman's harping!

Chorus
The torches flicker out, the violins go mute --

King
Tell me, what is the meaning of this silence?

Musician
Lord King, do not enflame in rage,
We cannot blow [our horns] or bow [our violins];
The merman is playing the harp before your palace,
We must give way to the merman.

Chorus
Hark!  How it wafts up from the sea!
Oh sweet, sorrowful reverberation!
It creeps so gently through the night
Up into the halls [of the castle].

It creeps so gently into the ear of the bride;
It seems to her, as if from the depths,
As if from the depths with all-encompassing power
Her dearest lover were calling her.

Princess
The power of the song makes my poor heart
Dissolve in death!

And though my knight is wonderfully resplendent
In his shining finery,
Ah, more handsome, a thousand times more handsome was
The lad in page's attire.

Chorus
It creeps so gently through the twilit night
Into the festive halls [of the castle].
From out of [the princess's] curls the myrtle wreath
Falls wilted at her feet.

Alto solo
The king shudders in his very marrow,
He flees in horror from the sound;
The foreign prince hastens
To his horses in the stable.

Chorus
In the festive hall lies the pale bride,
Her heart has burst;
The morning light gloomily illumines the windows,
The echoes of the merman's harp have faded away.

 



The Germans, who make doctrines out of everything, deal with music learnedly; the Italians, being voluptuous, seek in it lively, though fleeting, sensations; the French, more vain than perceptive, manage to speak of it wittily; and the English pay for it . . . - Stendhal

Offline Biffo

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #467 on: August 24, 2020, 01:21:07 AM »
Chandos' recording from 2000 by Schonwandt & the Danish National Radio Symphony and Choir, with Hanne Fischeras the princess (mezzo-soprano) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU_N5nLG8A



Published posthumously by Clara as Op.140, no-one would ever consider this superior to Des Sängers Fluch, but Vom Pagen und der Königstochter, 4 ballads for Soloists, Chorus & Orchestra has its moments. Schumann took the text from Emanuel Geibel's 'The Page and the King's Daughter' - modified it slightly here and there as required for his music - and spent some ten months composing it, possibly because he was already showing signs of the mental illness brought about almost certainly by the final stages of syphilis, and the 'immediate' setting to music he had spoken of to his friend Richard Pohl - who suggested the Geibel's poem - may have been delayed by fits of auditory hallucinations.

The tale is somewhat macabre, with murder and myth (water-creatures and so forth), and a harp made by a merman of the murdered boy's bones used in the final part to disrupt his princess's wedding (his former love) and to drive his murderer (the king) to madness . . .

IV. The rooms sparkle in the king's palace

Chorus
The rooms sparkle in the king's palace,
Come hither with flutes and violins;
The king's beautiful daughter
Is dancing her wedding dance in the palace.

Alto Solo
She is wearing the wreath of myrtles in her hair,
But she goes about mute and constrained;
Upon her breast she wears a blooming rose,
But her cheeks, they are so pale.

She is dancing with a foreign prince,
He wears royal purple and silk;
But more handsome, a thousand times more handsome was
The lad in page's attire.

Chorus
Hail! Hail to the bride! The bride! The noble bride!
Come hither with flutes and violins!

At the golden table twelve maidens stand
To serve the sparkling wine;
Twelve pages circle around the bridal pair
With flaming torches and wreaths.

Merman (from the distrance)
Ha, be still! Fine palace beside the sea,
Listen to the merman's harping!

Chorus
The torches flicker out, the violins go mute --

King
Tell me, what is the meaning of this silence?

Musician
Lord King, do not enflame in rage,
We cannot blow [our horns] or bow [our violins];
The merman is playing the harp before your palace,
We must give way to the merman.

Chorus
Hark!  How it wafts up from the sea!
Oh sweet, sorrowful reverberation!
It creeps so gently through the night
Up into the halls [of the castle].

It creeps so gently into the ear of the bride;
It seems to her, as if from the depths,
As if from the depths with all-encompassing power
Her dearest lover were calling her.

Princess
The power of the song makes my poor heart
Dissolve in death!

And though my knight is wonderfully resplendent
In his shining finery,
Ah, more handsome, a thousand times more handsome was
The lad in page's attire.

Chorus
It creeps so gently through the twilit night
Into the festive halls [of the castle].
From out of [the princess's] curls the myrtle wreath
Falls wilted at her feet.

Alto solo
The king shudders in his very marrow,
He flees in horror from the sound;
The foreign prince hastens
To his horses in the stable.

Chorus
In the festive hall lies the pale bride,
Her heart has burst;
The morning light gloomily illumines the windows,
The echoes of the merman's harp have faded away.

The scenario shows a striking similarity to Mahler's Das klagende Lied , especially Part II (originally Part III - Wedding Piece) but with a harp made of bones rather than a flute. I wonder if Mahler knew the poem.

Offline Scion7

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #468 on: August 24, 2020, 02:30:48 AM »
Yup, he did.
It's also apparent in Dvorak's "The Golden Spinning Wheel."
The Germans, who make doctrines out of everything, deal with music learnedly; the Italians, being voluptuous, seek in it lively, though fleeting, sensations; the French, more vain than perceptive, manage to speak of it wittily; and the English pay for it . . . - Stendhal

Offline kyjo

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #469 on: August 24, 2020, 06:32:54 AM »
I recently discovered Schumann’s substantial oratorio Das Paradies und die Peri at the urging of a friend who believes it to be his greatest work. Although there are a couple rather dull numbers, I enjoyed it very much overall, particularly the energetic, martial choruses which show Schumann in a rare festive mood. The Gardiner recording is absolutely superb, with a formidable cast of soloists including Barbara Bonney:

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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #470 on: August 24, 2020, 01:35:26 PM »
I recently discovered Schumann’s substantial oratorio Das Paradies und die Peri at the urging of a friend who believes it to be his greatest work. Although there are a couple rather dull numbers, I enjoyed it very much overall, particularly the energetic, martial choruses which show Schumann in a rare festive mood. The Gardiner recording is absolutely superb, with a formidable cast of soloists including Barbara Bonney:



I have the Rattle/LSO Live recording but don't like it all that much. I like what I've heard of the Gardiner better, but all in all I have thus far failed to be moved by this work. I might try and trade in for the Gardiner.

I just purchased the other big Schumann oratorio: Faustszenen, the Wit/Naxos recording. Excited to spend some time with the music. I love Schumann but thus far his choral music has not done much for me.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #471 on: August 24, 2020, 04:00:38 PM »
I recently discovered Schumann’s substantial oratorio Das Paradies und die Peri at the urging of a friend who believes it to be his greatest work. Although there are a couple rather dull numbers, I enjoyed it very much overall, particularly the energetic, martial choruses which show Schumann in a rare festive mood. The Gardiner recording is absolutely superb, with a formidable cast of soloists including Barbara Bonney:



I have the Gardiner, in a box with the symphonies.

I still didn't love the entire thing, but as it is probably the most I've enjoyed a work of this genre (especially the first part) then both Schumann and Gardiner must have been doing a fairly good job!
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Offline Brewski

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #472 on: December 18, 2020, 09:08:45 AM »
From last Monday, the Brentano Quartet in Schumann String Quartet in A Major, Op. 41, No. 3 (first half of the program, which continues with Brahms). Not sure I've heard this piece before, and liked it very much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MzOuVVSVQ

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Offline hvbias

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #473 on: April 01, 2021, 03:43:35 PM »
Dina Ugorskaja's Schumann disc has changed my mind on Gesange der Fruhe and the "Ghost Variations", though Variation 5 is still the least interesting. There is a certain darkness in her interpretations that suits them, overall a really fine disc from her.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #474 on: April 02, 2021, 01:33:54 AM »
Dina Ugorskaja's Schumann disc has changed my mind on Gesange der Fruhe and the "Ghost Variations", though Variation 5 is still the least interesting. There is a certain darkness in her interpretations that suits them, overall a really fine disc from her.

Yes, love it.
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Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #475 on: April 28, 2021, 06:28:22 AM »
Inspired by the recent discussion of Schumann's symphonies, listening to:

Schumann

Symphony No. 1 in B flat major, Op. 38 "Le Printemps"


David Zinman
Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich

Arte Nova Classics

I love the generally brisk tempi taken by Zinman.  A set I have listened to very frequently since acquiring it back in around 2006/2007.


Offline hvbias

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #476 on: April 28, 2021, 02:29:09 PM »


There are many great recordings of the Fantasy in C but I've never heard pianism to equal this one. Possibly the best recording of them all?? (Even with the occasional flubbed note.) Listen to it and tell me if I'm wrong.

Indeed excellent.

On the topic of Fantasie in C I realize I haven't listened to many new recordings, are there any really exceptional performances recorded from the 90s onward?

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #477 on: July 14, 2021, 03:47:09 PM »
Written by a friend of mine:

An Old Look at Schumann’s Organ Works
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
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Offline milk

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #478 on: August 25, 2021, 02:30:18 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks this DOES work? I do think so. I do like the Schumann on here. It's very natural-sounding to my ears:


Offline milk

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Re: Schumann's Shoebox
« Reply #479 on: August 25, 2021, 02:34:34 AM »
Written by a friend of mine:

An Old Look at Schumann’s Organ Works
Looks interesting. Thanks.
Can someone recommend a good recording of Schumann's organ works?
Answering my own question, I think Vernet is good.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 06:16:13 AM by milk »