Schumann's Shoebox

[Drasko]

A question about Schumann's piano works. I've heard the Richter recording of the Fantasy, Op. 17/Faschingsschwank aus Wien, Op. 26/Papillons, Op. 2 and somehow I've never been able to connect with it . I figure this has more to do with the compositions than the interpretations, because I do like Richter elsewhere.

There has to be other interesting pieces that I could try, right? I'd be a bit surprised to find out that the concerto is his only piano work that I like.

There are plenty of interesting Schumann piano music you could try. If you are into something more classically structured you could try Symphonic Etudes or if you'd like suite of character pieces, more along Papillons, try Carnaval for start.

[Taxes-]

perhaps Schumann is not for you?

Oh, I'm sure that Schumann's for me, I just don't know it yet .

The "too romantic" part is likely to be true actually, I've had issues with composers from this generation (Chopin, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Liszt) and in most cases they were only solved by finding the more objective interprets playing the composer's more classically inclined works.

I've sampled a bit of Kempff-Schumann, and this looks very promising. I wasn't able to do the same with Klára Würtz, but after reading a few reviews, I think I might end up also giving this one a try.

Thanks everyone!

[karlhenning]

Fedor Lusinov!

Thank you!

[Scarpia]

Oh, I'm sure that Schumann's for me, I just don't know it yet .

The "too romantic" part is likely to be true actually, I've had issues with composers from this generation (Chopin, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Liszt) and in most cases they were only solved by finding the more objective interprets playing the composer's more classically inclined works.

I've sampled a bit of Kempff-Schumann, and this looks very promising. I wasn't able to do the same with Klára Würtz, but after reading a few reviews, I think I might end up also giving this one a try.

Thanks everyone!

Are you restricting yourself to piano music?  If you are, just about all of Schumann's piano music is the aural equivalent of tapioca pudding, gloppy and formless.  No pianist can change that (except by playing something else).  In his work in other genres he was able to gird his loins and write something coherent.  The four symphonies are outstanding and available in numerous outstanding recordings, my latest favorite is Daagaurd.  If you want piano in the mix, the piano Trios, Quartet and Quintet are rewarding. 

[DavidW]

Oh, I'm sure that Schumann's for me, I just don't know it yet .

The "too romantic" part is likely to be true actually, I've had issues with composers from this generation (Chopin, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Liszt) and in most cases they were only solved by finding the more objective interprets playing the composer's more classically inclined works.

I've sampled a bit of Kempff-Schumann, and this looks very promising. I wasn't able to do the same with Klára Würtz, but after reading a few reviews, I think I might end up also giving this one a try.

Thanks everyone!

Performing a romantic era composer in a classical manner is not what I would call "objective" as much as wrong.  It's okay to prefer emotionally restrained performances, just please don't try to justify it with false claims of being objectively correct.  This is art anyway not accounting.  I would suggest simply waiting to be in the mood for romantic era music, no need to try to cram a round peg into a square hole.

[George]

I dare anyone not to enjoy the Introduction and Allegro by Schumann. 

[Scarpia]

I dare anyone not to enjoy the Introduction and Allegro by Schumann. 

Ok, I'll take a crack at it.  Need to find a recording to maximize my chances of not enjoying it.  Richter seems like the obvious choice.   

[Taxes-]

Are you restricting yourself to piano music?  If you are, just about all of Schumann's piano music is the aural equivalent of tapioca pudding, gloppy and formless.  No pianist can change that (except by playing something else).  In his work in other genres he was able to gird his loins and write something coherent.  The four symphonies are outstanding and available in numerous outstanding recordings, my latest favorite is Daagaurd.  If you want piano in the mix, the piano Trios, Quartet and Quintet are rewarding. 

Not exactly, it's just that I've been in a mood for keyboard music and little else lately.  I already like his piano and violin concerti quite a bit, in fact, and I'll get to the rest of his works eventually. I can't seem to find anything about these "Daagaurd" symphonies though, do you have more information about them?

Performing a romantic era composer in a classical manner is not what I would call "objective" as much as wrong.  It's okay to prefer emotionally restrained performances, just please don't try to justify it with false claims of being objectively correct.  This is art anyway not accounting.  I would suggest simply waiting to be in the mood for romantic era music, no need to try to cram a round peg into a square hole.

I guess that I'll have to be more careful with what I write! "Objective" might have been the wrong term to characterize the kind of pianists that I was refering to, i.e. the more emotionally restrained ones. I wasn't trying to justify anything or anyone either, I was just referring to my personal preferences as far as this part of the répertoire goes.

I dare anyone not to enjoy the Introduction and Allegro by Schumann. 

which one? There's two ! I sure like this one though!

[Scarpia]

Spelling mistake

[Taxes-]

allright, thanks.

[Bulldog]

Are you restricting yourself to piano music?  If you are, just about all of Schumann's piano music is the aural equivalent of tapioca pudding, gloppy and formless.  No pianist can change that (except by playing something else).  In his work in other genres he was able to gird his loins and write something coherent.  The four symphonies are outstanding and available in numerous outstanding recordings, my latest favorite is Daagaurd.  If you want piano in the mix, the piano Trios, Quartet and Quintet are rewarding. 

I feel just the opposite.  The solo piano works are miles ahead of Schumann's other compositions.  The common theme that his piano works are like pudding or some other glop is just inaccurate.

[George]

Ok, I'll take a crack at it.  Need to find a recording to maximize my chances of not enjoying it.  Richter seems like the obvious choice.   

Whatever sinks your boat. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I feel just the opposite.  The solo piano works are miles ahead of Schumann's other compositions.  The common theme that his piano works are like pudding or some other glop is just inaccurate.

Ditto. And in general this is the majority opinion of Schumann's output, for good reason. 

Schumann's piano works carry more concentration per square inch than anything else he wrote. Just how that translates into "gloppy" I'll never know.

[karlhenning]

George! 

[George]

George! 

k a rl!

[Sergeant Rock]

"Objective" might have been the wrong term to characterize the kind of pianists that I was refering to, i.e. the more emotionally restrained ones.

You might try these works played by Pollini:

CONCERT SANS ORCHESTRE F MINOR OP.14
ALLEGRO B MINOR OP.8
DAVIDSBÜNDLERTÄNZE OP.6 FIRST EDITION
GESÄNGE DER FRÜHE OP.133
KREISLERIANA OP.16 FIRST VERSION

Available on this two disc set:



This is my favorite Schumann piano recording and I think he's the type of interpreter you might be looking for. Stephen Plaistow in Gramophone says, "Pollini, never one to play the dreamy Daniel in Schumann, may seem plain or his stance over- objective to some, but I would defend him to the death." That he plays the first editions of Kreisleriana and the Davidsbündlertänze is a major plus (most other pianists play the less harmonically interesting revised versions).

If you're looking for a great symphony cycle, do not overlook the classic Szell/Cleveland.

Sarge

[George]

If you're looking for a great symphony cycle, do not overlook the classic Szell/Cleveland.

Sarge

Grabbed that one recently. 

[ChamberNut]

Everything old is new again! 

Listening to that Piano Concerto again, it felt like the first time I enjoyed listening to it.  So fresh and exuberant.  Just love it.

The King of the early Romantics!  0:)

[Herman]

Are you restricting yourself to piano music?  If you are, just about all of Schumann's piano music is the aural equivalent of tapioca pudding, gloppy and formless.  No pianist can change that (except by playing something else).  

This is the beauty of the internet. The lame leading the blind.

A couple of other posters have already intervened in this egregious piece of malinformation / misdirection. I love Schumann's chamber music and his symphonies nr 2 and 4, but no well-intended person would tell a Schumann newbie that Schumann's piano solo music needs to be skipped in order to savour Schumann (and then recommend a couple excentric symphony recordings).

If you are looking for the more classically formed pieces I'd say the Kreisleriana and the Sonatas wouldn't be a bad place to start.

[Guido]

Just browsing the Schumann work list page on Wikipedia and am completely daunted by the number of works I havent heard by this guy. He's one of my all time favourites - Too many pieces to mention of his that I truly love.

Of the songs though, I only know the op.39 Liederkreis and the Dichterleider both of which are desert island works for me since I was introduced to them about a year ago (thanks to Luke!). Where to next though? The list is truly massive:

Op. 24, Liederkreis (Heine), nine songs (1840)
Op. 25, Myrthen, twenty-six songs (4 books) (1840)
Op. 27, Lieder und Gesänge volume I (5 songs) (1840)
Op. 29, 3 Gedichte (1840)
Op. 30, 3 Gedichte (1840)
Op. 31, 3 Gesänge (1840)
Op. 33, 4 Lieder (part songs for men's voices with piano ad lib) (1840)
Op. 34, 4 Duets (soprano and tenor with piano) (1840)
Op. 35, 12 Gedichte (1840)
Op. 36, 6 Gedichte (1840)
Op. 37, Gedichte aus "Liebesfrühling" (12 songs, of which numbers 2, 4 and 11 are by Clara Schumann) (1840)
Op. 39, Liederkreis (Eichendorff), twelve songs (1840)
Op. 40, 5 Lieder (1840)
Op. 42, Frauenliebe und -leben (Chamisso), eight songs (1840)
Op. 43, 3 Duets (1840)
Op. 45, Romanzen & Balladen volume I (3 songs) (1840)
Op. 48, Song cycle, Dichterliebe, sixteen songs from Heine's Buch der Lieder (1840)
Op. 49, Romanzen & Balladen volume II (3 songs) (1840)
Op. 51, Lieder und Gesänge volume II (5 songs) (1842)
Op. 53, Romanzen & Balladen volume III (3 songs) (1840)
Op. 55, 5 Lieder (partsongs) (1846)
Op. 57, Belsatzar, ballad (Heine) (1840)
Op. 59, 4 Gesänge (partsongs) (1846)
Op. 62, 3 Gesänge (partsongs with piano ad lib) (1847)
Op. 64, Romanzen & Balladen volume IV (3 songs) (1841–47)
Op. 65, Ritornelle in canonischen Weisen (7 canonic part songs) (1847)
Op. 67, Romanzen & Balladen volume I (5 partsongs) (1849)
Op. 69, Romanzen volume I (6 partsongs for women's voices) (1849)
Op. 74, Spanisches Liederspiel (3 songs, 5 duets, 2 quartets) (1849)
Op. 75, Romanzen & Balladen volume II (5 partsongs) (1849)
Op. 77, Lieder und Gesänge volume III (5 songs) (1841–50)
Op. 78, 4 duets (soprano and tenor) (1849)
Op. 79, Liederalbum für die Jugend (29 songs) (1849)
Op. 83, 3 Gesänge (1850)
Op. 87, Ballad, "Der Handschuh" (Schiller) (1850)
Op. 89, 6 Gesänge (1850)
Op. 90, 6 Gedichte (1850)
Op. 91, Romanzen volume II (6 partsongs for women's voices) (1849)
Op. 95, 3 Gesänge (1849)
Op. 96, Lieder und Gesänge volume IV (1850)
Op. 101, Minnespiel (4 songs, 2 duets, 2 quartets) (1849)
Op. 103, Mädchenlieder (2 women's voices and piano) (1851)
Op. 104, 7 Lieder (1851)
Op. 106, Declamation with piano, "Schön Hedwig" (1849)
Op. 107, 6 Gesänge (1851–52)
Op. 114, 3 Lieder für 3 Frauenstimmen (1853)
Op. 117, 4 Husarenlieder (1851)
Op. 119, 3 Gedichte (1851)
Op. 122, Declamation with piano: "Ballade vom Heideknaben" and "Die Flüchlinge" (1852)
Op. 125, 5 heitere Gesänge (1851)
Op. 127, 5 Lieder und Gesänge (1850–51)
Op. 135, Gedichte der Königin Maria Stuart (1852)
Op. 137, Jagdlieder (5 partsongs for men's voices with 4 horns ad lib) [1849]
Op. 138, Spanische Liebeslieder (1849)
Op. 142, 4 Gesänge (1852)
Op. 145, Romanzen & Balladen Vol. III (5 partsongs) (1849–51)
Op. 146, Romanzen & Balladen Vol. IV (5 partsongs) (1849)

Also the choral works of which I only know the gorgeous Nachtlied (again thanks go to Luke.)

Op. 50, Das Paradies und die Peri, oratorio (1841–43)
Op. 71, Adventlied for soprano, chorus and orchestra (1848)
Op. 81, Genoveva, opera (1848)
Op. 84, Beim Abschied zu singen for chorus & winds (1848)
Op. 93, Motet, "Verzweifle nicht im Schmerzenstal" for double chorus and organ ad lib (1849, orchestrated 1852)
Op. 98a, Songs from Wilhelm Meister
Op. 98b, Requiem for Mignon for solo voices, chorus and orchestra (1849)
Op. 108, Nachtlied for chorus and orchestra (1849)
Op. 112, Der Rose Pilgerfahrt oratorio (1851)
Op. 115, Overture and incidental music, Manfred (1848–49)
Op. 116, Der Königssohn (Uhland), for solos, chorus and orchestra (1851)
Op. 123, Festival overture on the Rheinweinlied for orchestra and chorus (1853)
Op. 139, "Des Sängers Fluch" (Uhland) for solo voice, chorus and orchestra (1852)
Op. 140, "Vom Pagen und der Königstochter" for solo voice, chorus, and orchestra (1852)
Op. 141, 4 doppelchörige gesänge (partsongs) (1849)
Op. 143, "Das Glück von Edenhall" (Uhland) for solo voice, chorus, and orchestra (1853)[1]
Op. 144, "Neujahrslied" for chorus and orchestra (1849–50)
Op. 147, Mass (1852)
Op. 148, Requiem (1852)
WoO 3, Scenes from Goethe's Faust, oratorio (1844–1853)[1]