Schumann's Shoebox

[Lethevich]

Interesting - so there seems to be an agreement that there are at least the three initial movements, and only after this do they diverge? If they are only making differing subdivisions of the same final "movement" then perhaps that does validate its presence after all - some recordings, after all, do sub-divide the finale of Beethoven's 9th simply because they feel it slightly unwieldy, although I suppose there are no such ambiguities in the composer's intent there.

Also, Schumann's intent is not followed nowadays in other pieces too - he considered his piano concerto a two movement work, for example, with the "Intermezzo & Rondo" joined, so perhaps a little editorial intervention could perhaps have a place in the Humoreske as well. He did tend to have some "unbalanced" movement timings in other pieces (f.eg. part 2 of Kreisleriana), so perhaps considering that final large section worth sub-dividing is trying to tame the piece a little too much.

Edit: Feinberg is winning the draw so far, by the way

[snyprrr]

I don't get Schumann. What's the fuss?

I get the Cello Concerto. It has that perfect minor key Romantic Sound. What's not to like?

I think I like the SQs on ECM,... but, the rest, I dunno,... the Piano Quintet sounds well made enough, but it's just sort of snappy,... I mean, I thought Schumann was the Poster Child for... whaaat?... angst? Does he just have a spurt around 1842, and then, what the Late Piano Trios aren't all that?

Why do I always picture Schumann living in a tree, like a Keebler elf? Is he really that mystically pixi-ish? Am I confusing him with Mendelssohn?

[Lethevich]

Schumann might perhaps seem difficult because he didn't lapse into cliché - he was a supporter of new and progressive music, but chose to write in a style which retained a classical touch. He didn't look forward to Wagner any more than he looked back to Beethoven and Mendelssohn - or to his contemporaries Chopin and Brahms - yet still wrote highly unique, relevent and often progressive music (such as his opera Genoveva, which is more symphonic than any of its time, save Wagner).

The hallmark I associate him with is not a profusion of Romantic angst, but its temperance with many other qualities that he also mastered - a sense of the mystery of nature and literature, the child's perception of the world, and fusing this naivety into even his "heroic" works to create works with a great essence of humanity and warmth. His often discussed difficulties with playing the piano at a virtuoso level I feel are reflected in his compositions: to compare him with Mendelssohn, part of Schumann's appeal to me is that he makes the wrong choices where Mendelssohn makes the right ones. His scherzos can sound clumsy at times, but they entirely represent the spirit which inspired their composition, and without them they would be inferior works.

His piano quintet and quartets are perhaps more 'professional' than his quartets and especially piano trios, but both are well tailored to his sound world. He was the finest lieder writer between Schubert and Brahms (and I consider him easily the equal of the latter), is solo piano music is like nothing else in its sense of high drama and fantasy.

There were many Romantics who wrote music similar in concept to Schumann - nature-inspired works, children's music - but only Schumann had the ability to raise these works from potboilers into great compositions, probably because his thoughts were so close to the subjects. "Naive" pieces such as Carnaval or Davidsbündlertänze do not reveal a "serious" composer having a little fun writing light music as other composers might, but they contain the essence of what makes Schumann so worthwhile.

If you want to hear him at his most stormily Romantic, try Kreisleriana - but though this is one of his finest compositions, it's only part of the story. His life was somewhat more domestic than Berlioz, a similarly biographical Romantic, and this sense of the intimate, or the mind-meeting-mind dominates much of his music. I'll stfu now, as I can't seem to sum this up.

Edit: in retrospect I feel as though do a disservice to Schumann's intelligence in the previous description - he was a highly urbane and educated person, the combination of this and all the other qualities mentioned makes him one of the most unscrutable of the "great" composers.

[snyprrr]

Schumann might perhaps seem difficult because he didn't lapse into cliché - he was a supporter of new and progressive music, but chose to write in a style which retained a classical touch. He didn't look forward to Wagner any more than he looked back to Beethoven and Mendelssohn - or to his contemporaries Chopin and Brahms - yet still wrote highly unique, relevent and often progressive music (such as his opera Genoveva, which is more symphonic than any of its time, save Wagner).

The hallmark I associate him with is not a profusion of Romantic angst, but its temperance with many other qualities that he also mastered - a sense of the mystery of nature and literature, the child's perception of the world, and fusing this naivety into even his "heroic" works to create works with a great essence of humanity and warmth. His often discussed difficulties with playing the piano at a virtuoso level I feel are reflected in his compositions: to compare him with Mendelssohn, part of Schumann's appeal to me is that he makes the wrong choices where Mendelssohn makes the right ones. His scherzos can sound clumsy at times, but they entirely represent the spirit which inspired their composition, and without them they would be inferior works.

His piano quintet and quartets are perhaps more 'professional' than his quartets and especially piano trios, but both are well tailored to his sound world. He was the finest lieder writer between Schubert and Brahms (and I consider him easily the equal of the latter), is solo piano music is like nothing else in its sense of high drama and fantasy.

There were many Romantics who wrote music similar in concept to Schumann - nature-inspired works, children's music - but only Schumann had the ability to raise these works from potboilers into great compositions, probably because his thoughts were so close to the subjects. "Naive" pieces such as Carnaval or Davidsbündlertänze do not reveal a "serious" composer having a little fun writing light music as other composers might, but they contain the essence of what makes Schumann so worthwhile.

If you want to hear him at his most stormily Romantic, try Kreisleriana - but though this is one of his finest compositions, it's only part of the story. His life was somewhat more domestic than Berlioz, a similarly biographical Romantic, and this sense of the intimate, or the mind-meeting-mind dominates much of his music. I'll stfu now, as I can't seem to sum this up.

I think I understand a little better now,... you're making sense.

Can someone else pick up this ball? I'm intrigued.

[DavidW]

I also can be surprised by how snappy the quintets sound when compared to other works of Schumann.  But you know his music can sound bipolar, reflecting his personality.

[Que]

Just pointing out an interesting and promising looking new issue!
Would this finally be a satisfying complete piano trios set? (And yes, I definitely don't regard the Beaux Arts recording as such...)



Q

[Scarpia]

Just pointing out an interesting and promising looking new issue!
Would this finally be a satisfying complete piano trios set? (And yes, I definitely don't regard the Beaux Arts recording as such...)

Don't know what your issue is with the Beaux Arts, but with that set and the superb recordings by the Florestan Trio on Hyperion I feel the works are well represented in my collection.

[Que]

Don't know what your issue is with the Beaux Arts, but with that set and the superb recordings by the Florestan Trio on Hyperion I feel the works are well represented in my collection.

Good for you.

Q

[Scarpia]

Good for you.

Q

[Gurn Blanston]

I like my Beaux Arts recording, and also my Florestans. I would be happy to hear someone else's take on it though. I am a fan (as much as I can be of a MI pianist) of Andsnes and I like Xtian Tetzlaff too. This would be a recording to check out.

[SonicMan46]

Just pointing out an interesting and promising looking new issue!
Would this finally be a satisfying complete piano trios set? (And yes, I definitely don't regard the Beaux Arts recording as such...)

 

Well, I have the 2-CD set w/ BAT that include the Piano Trios, Piano Quartet, & Piano Quintet  (inserted above right) - the set above recommended appears to include more 'trio' works - are these transcriptions or just other less recorded compositions?  Plus, I'd certainly want the Quartet/Quintet - so 'how many' discs would be needed to replace all of this 2-disc BAT compilation?  Just trying to obtain some comments & recommendations - 

[Scarpia]

Well, I have the 2-CD set w/ BAT that include the Piano Trios, Piano Quartet, & Piano Quintet  (inserted above right) - the set above recommended appears to include more 'trio' works - are these transcriptions or just other less recorded compositions?  Plus, I'd certainly want the Quartet/Quintet - so 'how many' discs would be needed to replace all of this 2-disc BAT compilation?  Just trying to obtain some comments & recommendations - 

The new recording contains a transcription of some etudes for "pedal piano" that is unique.  Other than that it is the standard piano trios and phantasy trio.  You can check it out easily, it has been on sale on Amazon for a while (and is not particularly expensive).

[asin]B004N96HXI[/asin]

[Que]

Well, please excuse me for still looking for THE set.

Schumann, like Brahms, is a hard composer "to get" in terms of character and spirit of the music. The BAT set did not satisfy me, sounds rather wooden and uninspired in my ears. Aside from the general issues I have with the style of the BAT in later years. I left the Florestan Trio behind me a while ago after experiencing their Brahms set, finding their general style simply too "pretty". But maybe I should give their Schumann set a chance...

Best performances I've experienced sofar have been the live recordings of Casals et al at the Prades Festival (M&A). As for individual trio recordings the Casals/Thibaud/Cortot op. 63 is tremendous, Rubinstein et al in op. 63 is close, but no cigar (the complete Brahms trios are a treasure though).

Oh, and the sets by the Borodin (Chandos), Trio Fontenay (Teldec Warner) and Copenhagen Trio (Kontrapunkt) - hardly worth mentioning. The Abegg-Trio (Tacet) is still a blank spot for me.

Q

[Brahmsian]

I just think Que has an issue with BAT in general, regardless of composer.  Me thinks if BAT were HIP (a HIP BAT), he would think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[DavidW]

I just think Que has an issue with BAT in general, regardless of composer.  Me thinks if BAT were HIP (a HIP BAT), he would think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Yeah but if BAT was HIP, they wouldn't sound like BAT!

[snyprrr]

Don't know what your issue is with the Beaux Arts, but with that set and the superb recordings by the Florestan Trio on Hyperion I feel the works are well represented in my collection.

TetzLeif's Bartok/Virgin disc blew me away,... and Tetz's Schnabel Solo Sonata blew me away,... so,... when I saw this, I was like, I don't even care if I like the music! How can this not be Special (as long as the cello-Tetz is good!)?

[snyprrr]

I have a feeling I'm gearing up for a Schumann-a-thon,... but all I have is the Cello Concerto. There are a few Chamber Boxes out there (all on EMI?, haha),... or, is piecemeal the way to go? It seems to me that the recordings issue should be settled with Schumann, no? Everything in perfect performances and recordings? Is this a budding bromance?

[Scarpia]

I have a feeling I'm gearing up for a Schumann-a-thon,... but all I have is the Cello Concerto. There are a few Chamber Boxes out there (all on EMI?, haha),... or, is piecemeal the way to go? It seems to me that the recordings issue should be settled with Schumann, no? Everything in perfect performances and recordings? Is this a budding bromance?

For chamber music this is an interesting alternative.

[asin]B0001ZA2IO[/asin]

[Brahmsian]

I have a feeling I'm gearing up for a Schumann-a-thon,... but all I have is the Cello Concerto. There are a few Chamber Boxes out there (all on EMI?, haha),... or, is piecemeal the way to go? It seems to me that the recordings issue should be settled with Schumann, no? Everything in perfect performances and recordings? Is this a budding bromance?

You need more Schumann in your life.  He was a quirky guy like yourself, I would think that he could potentially be your soulmate composer.

You need all of the concertos, chamber music and all the piano music.......as a start!

[snyprrr]

You need more Schumann in your life.  He was a quirky guy like yourself, I would think that he could potentially be your soulmate composer.

You need all of the concertos, chamber music and all the piano music.......as a start!

The guy had hair issues!