Beautiful violin concerto by Korngold

[Saul]

Such beauty.. wow amazing music...

Hilary Hahn performs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EsYUuGo8XA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRkuHKc9YJQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJEy8Vnm29c&feature=related

[M forever]

That's the DSO, the Deutsches Symphonie Orchester in Berlin (or in your terms, the Amalekiter Symphonie Orchester), obviously conducted by Nagano. Not bad at all, but I find the soloist's playing, although technically certain very competent, not convincing at all. A lot of the phrases just doodle along.

Better:



or:




Previn has championed this work with a numer of different soloists. I heard it once live with him conducting the LAPO, soloist was the then concertmaster Sidney Weiss. Very good!

[Saul]

That's the DSO, the Deutsches Symphonie Orchester in Berlin (or in your terms, the Amalekiter Symphonie Orchester), obviously conducted by Nagano. Not bad at all, but I find the soloist's playing, although technically certain very competent, not convincing at all. A lot of the phrases just doodle along.

Better:



or:




Previn has championed this work with a numer of different soloists. I heard it once live with him conducting the LAPO, soloist was the then concertmaster Sidney Weiss. Very good!

Yes, but the Amalekites are playing the beautiful music of a Jew.

[M forever]

Same thing the other way around:

http://www.ipo.co.il/list/list.asp

Next program: Schubert - Beethoven - Schumann, and hardly ever a program without at least one German or Austrian composer. That must hurt you terribly. Why do they do that?

[Saul]

Same thing the other way around:

http://www.ipo.co.il/list/list.asp

Next program: Schubert - Beethoven - Schumann, and hardly ever a program without at least one German or Austrian composer. That must hurt you terribly. Why do they do that?

I also wonder, why they do that, can you explain why, M?

[Kullervo]

This is the only recording I have of the Korngold concerto:



(In case the text is too tiny for you to read, the soloist is Chantal Juillet, with John Mauceri conducting the Berlin RSO.)

It is coupled with the completely-forgotten Krenek concerto, which has a gauzy, Berg-like atmosphere (though sounds nothing like the Berg concerto), and Weill's concerto for violin and wind ensemble, which is a nice slice of 20's modernism a la Hindemith.

If I had the time and money, I would buy as much as the Entartete Musik as I could, before it disappears completely.

[M forever]

I also wonder, why they do that, can you explain why, M?

Well, that should be obvious even to you, apparently because they, their conductors and guest artists, and their audience think - like the rest of the world - that there is a megaton of great music in that repertoire, and because most Israelis (pretty much all I ever met personally, and although I have never been to Israel, I had the opportunity to meet a lof of music students from there - many come to Germany because they want to study in the land of music) don't have as sick and prejudiced a mind as you and some other conservative fanatics do. Most Israelis I met were also generally very unhappy about the climate of hatred in their home country which they say is fueled by orthodox Jewish groups just as much as by extremist Arab groups. For obvious reasons of political influence and fanaticism on both sides. They just want all that to stop, live in peace, and enjoy the fruits of life, like, for musicians, the unparalleled heritage of great music from Germany and Austria. I also know a few Jews here who I have told about the exchanges with you - actually showed them a few of your posts-, and they were deeply, deeply ashamed to be part of the same group of people as you are. But I don't see it that way. For me, there are only nice and not so nice people, interesting people and idiots. The values of culture and humanity make closer bonds between people than primitive tribal and fanatical religious madness as evident in your personality.

[Saul]

Well, that should be obvious even to you, apparently because they, their conductors and guest artists, and their audience think - like the rest of the world - that there is a megaton of great music in that repertoire, and because most Israelis (pretty much all I ever met personally, and although I have never been to Israel, I had the opportunity to meet a lof of music students from there - many come to Germany because they want to study in the land of music) don't have as sick and prejudiced a mind as you and some other conservative fanatics do. Most Israelis I met were also generally very unhappy about the climate of hatred in their home country which they say is fueled by orthodox Jewish groups just as much as by extremist Arab groups. For obvious reasons of political influence and fanaticism on both sides. They just want all that to stop, live in peace, and enjoy the fruits of life, like, for musicians, the unparalleled heritage of great music from Germany and Austria. I also know a few Jews here who I have told about the exchanges with you - actually showed them a few of your posts-, and they were deeply, deeply ashamed to be part of the same group of people as you are. But I don't see it that way. For me, there are only nice and not so nice people, interesting people and idiots. The values of culture and humanity make closer bonds between people than primitive tribal and fanatical religious madness as evident in your personality.

Well, all of these Jews are liberals and are not following the Law. So what good is your evidence when you bring it from those that are ignorant of their faith and history?

The bottom line is that one of the greatest Rabbis of the past 200 years had said that Germany is Amalek, and yes he brings Talmudic sources among others to support his claim.

For those Jews that don't even keep basic and vital commandments such as the Sabbath , what good will the great Rabbi's comments be to their ears?

They do not accept the Torah and the Talmud , they do not accept that the G-d of Abraham cursed Amalek. So yes, this Rabbinic claim would be hard for them to accept.

But for those who are faithful to the covenant and are following the commandments of the Torah and have faith in the Sages of Israel, the Rabbi's comment is accepted and there is no reason in the world why not to accept it. And Germany and Austria can write the most beautiful music in the world, but that doesn't absolve them from the Rabbi's comment.


Yes, I have personally read that portion of the Talmud where the Sages of Israel discussed Germany and Rome and the brutal wars that the tribes of Germany and the Roman legions have waged. In there the Rabbi's speak words of complete and pure astonishment , they even mention a verse from the Hebrew Bible that contains the Hebrew word "Na'atzutzim" which shockingly resembles the word Nazis. And they talk about the dangers of what would happen if Germany of Edom will try to take over the world. Remember that the Talmud was written 2000 years ago by the great Sages of Israel. They knew what they were talking about, and believe me, The Great Genius of Vilnius knew what he was talking about better then any of today's Jews be secular or religious.

[M forever]

So you are saying all these many nice Israelis that I met are not real people who deserve to be taken seriously and whose personal choices in matters cultural and religious and political should be respected, like those of any other human being? Do you have a problem with worldly Israelis? Are you an anti-semite? are they bad people for liking and playing German music?

That there is a word in the bible which - vaguely - resembles the word "Nazi" is pure coincidence. There are probably many more than just that example. But you probably don't even know what that means and where it comes from.

Yes, I have personally read that portion of the Talmud where the Sages of Israel discussed Germany and Rome and the brutal wars that the tribes of Germany and the Roman legions have waged.

Did you also read the portions about the brutal and relentless extermination wars the Israelites claimed to have led against the Canaanites and other people they saw as enemies?

[Saul]

So you are saying all these many nice Israelis that I met are not real people who deserve to be taken seriously, like any other human being? Do you have a problem with worldy Israelis? Are you an anti-semite? are they bad people for liking and playing German music?

That there is a word in the bible which - vaguely - resembles the word "Nazi" is pure coincidence. There are probably many more than just that example. But you probably don't even know what that means and where it comes from.

All I am saying that secular Jews are not the medium to measure the truthfulness of the Torah and the Talmud. First, they are ignorant of it, secondly they do not believe it. And Yes, I love my fellow secular Jews, hope they will repent and return back to their faith.

"Na'atzutzim" is plural, but the singular word is "Na'atzutz"...and that's the only word that resembles the word 'Nazis' in that context of war and brutality. I am not inventing things here,M. Perhaps you should open up the Talmud and read for yourself.

Given the words of our Sages of the Talmud and even  words of our recent Sages , like the Gra of Vilnius with the addition of the recent history of 60 years ago, of what the Germans did and had plans to do to our people, whatever our Sages have said makes perfect sense.

Remember the Germans wanted to murder every single Jew in the world. Only an Amalekite, that is filled with pointless irrational hatred towards the Jewish nation is capable of such evilness. This brutality that the Germans have committed and wanted to commit on the Jews , was a product of an irrational hatred. The Jews have done nothing wrong to the Germans , ever. Read your history and find out how peaceful and good citizens the Jews were in Germany. Yet, the Germans wanted to murder every Jew.

Clearly the Germans were the decedents of Amalek, and they wanted to continue what their father, Haman of Persia wanted but was not successful thanks to G-d.

They wanted to cause the Jews to disappear from earth, but what had happed was that the Nazi movement disappeared. For they have forgot that the entire reason that G-d created the universe was because he wanted a saintly nation of priests that will accept his Torah. And if this nation would not exist, then G-d will destroy the universe, he has no need or desire to have a universe without a people that will crown him as the G-d of the universe.

Amalak is the great enemy of G-d, and that is why G-d himself cursed the nation of Amalek.

[knight66]

I am locking this. If anyone actually wants to have a discussion of the music, feel free to open a new version of the topic.

This is no area of the board on which to have a religious discussion. Additionally Saul, despite any requests....you are perfectly aware that you are NOT supposed to grasp any pretext for a discussion on Nazis or the Jewish faith. Try PMing this stuff to the specifically interested parties. This board is not your personal soapbox.

Mike