How would you cast Norma today?

[tomseeley]

30+ years ago, I had the thrill of hearing Joan Sutherland and Marilyn Horne sing Norma live at Lyric Opera in Chicago.  It remains one of the two most thrilling live performances in my memory as an audience member.  Right now, I'm listening to them on Sirius radio from a Met broadcast, and it prompts me to ask this question:

If you could cast Norma today, using sopranos and mezzo sopranos active today anywhere in the opera world, who would you cast in those roles?

[knight66]

I cannot think of anyone I would want to hear as Norma. Most of the voices I can think of are not robust enough, the others, threadbare or wobblers.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Renee Fleming sounds pretty convincing to me as a candidate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnDo8pIPQ9Y&feature=related
Don't know what she is doing now..
(The orchestra and singer here are not exactly in synch sometimes.)
ZB

[Wendell_E]

Renee Fleming sounds pretty convincing to me as a candidate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnDo8pIPQ9Y&feature=related
Don't know what she is doing now..
(The orchestra and singer here are not exactly in synch sometimes.)
ZB

There was talk in the last couple of years that Fleming would do the role first in Zürich (IIRC), then at the Met in a new production by Robert Wilson in the 2011-12 season, but according to an article in the New York Times last December, she decided the role "wasn't a fit" for her:

"She came to the conclusion it was not something she wanted to live with," said the spokeswoman, Mary Lou Falcone. "It was just the overall feeling. It's one thing to sing it. It's another thing to bring the drama to it. At the end of the day, the decision was: 'This is just not for me. There's a lot of other repertoire to do.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/arts/music/01norm.html

Luba Orgonasova (is she still singing?) or Anna Caterina Antonacci might be interesting Normas.

[Anne]

What about Debra Voigt?  She sings a lot of Strauss and Wagner.  If she would be wrong, what would be the reason?

[Lilas Pastia]

I agree with Anne. Deborah Voigt as Norma and Christine Brewer as Adalgisa. They sang in Die Frau ohne Schatten  in Chicago's Lyric Opera broadcast as the Empress and the Dyer's Wife, respectively. I've never heard either of them in better voice. It does sound strange that the epitome of bel canto operas would be cast with Hummer-sized straussian sopranos, though. But OTOH no opera today is sung in the small theatres of Bellini's days.

[Tsaraslondon]

What about Debra Voigt?  She sings a lot of Strauss and Wagner.  If she would be wrong, what would be the reason?

The reason is that this is Bellini and the vocal requirements are completely different. Accomplishment in Strauss and Wagner by no means qualifies a singer for the role of Norma.

I'm with Mike. I really can't think of a singer today who could do justice to the role. Fleming might just have the technique, but I doubt she has the temperament (though it could be argued that neither Caballe or Sutherland did either). It seems to me that people are misunderstanding the requirements of the role as they did before Callas sang it in the 1950s, and we are forgetting that this is a bel canto opera, written, in fact, for the same singer who created Amina in La Sonnambula, Guiditta Pasta. The first Adalgisa, the soprano Giulia Grisi also went on to sing Norma, though evidently without Pasta's passion. Later on it became one of Ponselle's greatest roles, but after her it went to such singers as Gina Cigna and Zinka Milanov, neither of whom could do justice to the coloratura demands of the role. Furthermore Callas, like Pasta and Malibran before her, was able to invest the coloratura with meaning, so that it became an aid to expression and not just a vocal display. One only has to hear her hurling roulades at Pollione in oh non tremare (not a note out of place or an aspirate in sight), and compare it with the same section sung by Cigna or Jane Eaglen to hear the difference. They have the power but not the techinique. Sutherland and Caballe have the technique but not the power. Callas had both.

It is not therefore without reason that it has a reputation for being the hardest role in the soprano repertory. Lilli Lehmann said she would rather sing all three Brunnhildes in one night than one Norma; and she should have known. Let me quote Lord Harewood writing in Kobbe in 1976.

In the two periods before and after the 1939-45 war, Norma acquired two great protagonists:Rosa Ponselle and Maria Callas, something I know from first-hand knowledge in the one case and from reliable hearsay and gramophone records in the other. With such exponents, Norma, above all Bellini's opera, flowers, gains in expressiveness and dramatic impact and the music grows to full stature as it cannot when the performance is in lesser hands. Partly, this gain is general and the result of technical attainments, of superior, more penetrating imagination;partly it is particular and the product of an ability to colour and weight every phrase individually and leave nothing open to the risks of the automatic or the routine. But, whatever the reason, let no one imagine he has genuinely heard Norma without a truly great singer in the title role. Not to have one is as dire in its consequences as a performance of Gotterdammerung  with an inadequate Brunnhilde. The trouble, as far as Bellini is concerned is that, in the twentieth century, there have been fewer great Normas than Brunnhildes.

I see no reason to alter this assessment for the twenty-first.

[knight66]

Thanks TL for that and for the quote. It is difficult to nail in words what is so difficult. Although the voice needs substantial reserves, that is the point, reserves, not sailing through it as though it were Wagner. Those reserves must be implied rather than used. I think that is what is so hard about the piece. There are very few singers who get inside the Bel Canto style. It is not early Verdi or late Mozart, it is a niche all of its own and Norma is probably the most problematic role of the entire Bel Canto output.

Deborah Voigt I would suggest would not have the innate ebb and flow way with it, Fleming I don't think has the iron hand in the velvet glove that it needs. I very much admire Anna Caterina Antonacci; temperamentally she has it in her, but you are likely to detect the sharp fingernails just under the velvet of the glove.

Mike

[Lilas Pastia]

I myself doubt Voigt and Brewer would be credible stylistically in Norma. Both have what it takes vocally (including pure soft singing - do listen to that 2007 Lyric Opera production. It's revelatory). But the florid bel canto style would require drastic retraining in both cases.

Dramatically, Brewer would be a non-starter. At over 300 pounds there's no way she could be credible as Pollione's new flame on stage. Voigt has shed over 100 pounds in the past couple of years and now cuts a womanly and alluring figure. But ideally, and certainly that is the case on records, voices are what count, not appearance. I don't think Fleming would last past the first act. She doesn't have the cutting power and stamina required. Not to mention the considerable  dramatic armoury that needs to be heard in the voice. It was not jokingly that Lehmann referred to Norma as being tougher than Bunnhilde x 3.

Tsaraslondon makes very good points and Callas' shadow will always loom overwhelmingly large in this area. But it should not be forgotten that Callas's first Normas were immediately preceded by a string of Kundrys, Brunnhildes and Isoldes. These wagnerian roles' huge vocal demands met head on were probably what caused  Serafin to propose Callas the roles of Elvira and Norma in the first place. He was acutely aware that modern operatic productions needed to fill much vaster expanses than was customary in 1830. So, IMO, nothing less than the full laser beam treatment - or astute microphone placement - will do.

[zamyrabyrd]

The reason is that this is Bellini and the vocal requirements are completely different.

In the two periods before and after the 1939-45 war, Norma acquired two great protagonists:Rosa Ponselle and Maria Callas, something I know from first-hand knowledge in the one case and from reliable hearsay and gramophone records in the other. With such exponents, Norma, above all Bellini's opera, flowers, gains in expressiveness and dramatic impact and the music grows to full stature as it cannot when the performance is in lesser hands. Partly, this gain is general and the result of technical attainments, of superior, more penetrating imagination;partly it is particular and the product of an ability to colour and weight every phrase individually and leave nothing open to the risks of the automatic or the routine. But, whatever the reason, let no one imagine he has genuinely heard Norma without a truly great singer in the title role.

A possible influence of Rosa Ponselle on Maria Callas via recordings may have been discussed or speculated on before, but your quote above reminded me somewhat of what I had in the back of my mind.  In fact, I don't know or remember if Callas actually said anything about Ponselle. I have been recently raiding youtube for clips of Ponselle. Over and over again, I feel that her sense of drama, vocal coloring, etc., could have had an impact on an aspiring singer. Claudia Muzio's recordings in the 30's may also be considered.

Did anyone ever wonder about who may have been Callas' role models?

Ponselle as Violetta with Tibbett:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-j9Qfanbk&NR=1

the "tired voice" that Callas spoke about in "Addio del Passato":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-j9Qfanbk&NR=1

The dramatism of the latter fairly gave me chills...

ZB

[knight66]

Yes I have wondered, especially when I heard Muzio and discovered that she must have been an influence. It was akin to listening to Mehul and hearing the Berlioz soundworld before Berlioz had put pen to paper. In that latter example, there was a formal teacher/pupil relationship.

TL will know for certain; but although Callas often mentions mentors, they were conductors, such as Serafin. I cannot recall her paying homage to the direct influence of earlier singers. I had rather assumed this was to retain the originality of the brand. However, it is clear that Muzio at least was a partial role model, perhaps there were others.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Yes I have wondered, especially when I heard Muzio and discovered that she must have been an influence. It was akin to listening to Mehul and hearing the Berlioz soundworld before Berlioz had put pen to paper. In that latter example, there was a formal teacher/pupil relationship.

TL will know for certain; but although Callas often mentions mentors, they were conductors, such as Serafin. I cannot recall her paying homage to the direct influence of earlier singers. I had rather assumed this was to retain the originality of the brand. However, it is clear that Muzio at least was a partial role model, perhaps there were others.

Mike

I have read, I think it was in Walter Legge's memoirs, that the only pre-war singer that Callas did admit to admiring was Rosa Ponselle. In fact, I think she tells one of her students in the Masterclasses to listen to Ponselle's recording of Ernani involami as a benchmark performance, though actually Callas's performance of the aria has much more grace, even if Ponselle makes the more attractive sound. Walter Legge also recounts that he suggested Callas went to see Ponselle when she first started having difficulties. She flatly refused, saying that she (Ponselle) started out with much better material than her.

On the subject of Norma, I know we only have Casta diva and Mira o Norma as examples of Ponselle's performance, but I find it hard to believe that she was better than Callas in the role. Both were great artists with differing strengths. I'd say they probably came out about equal in the end. Though Ponselle undoubtedly had the voice and the technique for the role, to my mind she doesn't have the ability to bind all those cadenzas and the filigree of the role into the musical fabric as Callas does. What ever role Callas sings, I am always astonished by the way she can make a cadenza a natural form of expression, not just a moment for vocal display.

On the other hand, Mike, I don't remember her ever mentioning Muzio.

[Lilas Pastia]

I've never been able to 'root' for Ponselle. However beautiful the sound she makes (admittedly one of the purest and fullest, with no discernible break throughout a very considerable range), like all other great singers she has chips in her armoury (inelegant aspirates abound in the Addio del passato and some portamentos nowadays would be considered a damning fault). Truly admirable are a very pure, classical handling of the musical line and an absolute control of her voice. I did wonder at the final note of the aria, though (thanks ZB for the youtube links). Isn't it slightly flat?

She seems content to find in the notes only the message of the music. I don't detect much of a singing actress in her artistic personality. Words are seldom inflected in a meaningful way and whole phrases pass by that in other singers' throats project with more dramatic force ("misero pane" in Pace pace mio Dio seems like a mild annoyance indeed). After a while the stunning vocal effects become predictable - the grand tenutos on softly floated high notes, or the powerful descents into her very potent lower range (*) for example - but that's ok. Every singer who 'owns' such desirable vocal trademarks wants to showcase them. In D'Amor sull'alli rosee for example the long held climactic high C doesn't convey the pregnant suspension of time Price achieves in her later recordings.

(*) That's the only vocal specialty I can find mirrored (imitated?) in Callas' own singing. Comparing the two divas' Suicidio is quite revealing.

[zamyrabyrd]

I've never been able to 'root' for Ponselle. However beautiful the sound she makes (admittedly one of the purest and fullest, with no discernible break throughout a very considerable range), like all other great singers she has chips in her armoury (inelegant aspirates abound in the Addio del passato and some portamentos nowadays would be considered a damning fault). Truly admirable are a very pure, classical handling of the musical line and an absolute control of her voice. I did wonder at the final note of the aria, though (thanks ZB for the youtube links). Isn't it slightly flat?
... Comparing the two divas' Suicidio is quite revealing.

Pure sound or a beautiful voice of course is not enough. So I pretty much agree with you. What was prized 80-100 years ago surely is not the same as what would not even pass as acceptable now, like scooping or coup de glotte. Also, there were other notes off pitch in the "Addio" but with all due respect this was from a live performance in 1935 and her expression more than made up for it. She retired shortly after the disastrous attempt at Carmen in 1937 before the age of 40.

Putting bits and pieces together from what I gleaned over the years, like from LP's of her and reading time and again how she felt inadequate, extremely nervous before performances, etc., perhaps it was a bit premature to throw her in the deep end with Forza while she was barely 22 years old. There are a lot of similarities with Callas even if some of them were by chance. She did have increasing trouble with high notes and maybe it was because her voice in her early 20's was not mature enough to do the heavy roles.

She was the daughter of Italian immigrants (b. 1897) whose older sister was also musical. I really believe that growing up with another Mediterranean language gives what no diction class can offer. I was always a little confused when reading that she was a native born US citizen, as her claim to fame was being the "first" American opera star. Her name changed from Ponzillo somewhat obliterated the Italian connection. This is odd at a time when performers used to Italianize their names like Melba, whose English dipthongs, albeit Australian, crept into her Italian arias.

As a teenager she was overweight and it seemed she liked to eat. I remember that Luciano Pavarotti mentioning that it was hard for him to keep up with her when they dined together!!! She did lose weight though and became not only svelte but attractive. Her pictures and costumes are fascinating, even one that shows her hands in an expressive gesture. One photo in particular has a kind of sculpted train is very reminiscent of Callas in Tosca.

I first encoutered Ponselle on film in "Great Singers of the 20th Century". I had a hard time believing it was her in the test tape for Carmen, since it was overly prettified, but at any rate, typical of the Hollywood style of the 30's and 40's. Also, there she didn't exploit her chest register that she did in other recordings (also similar to Callas).

Oddly, her talents were probably not used or exploited as much as they could have been. In an interivew she said (also speaking with low chest tones a la Callas) that she wanted to do Adriana Lecouvreur, for instance and even asked for it but instead was cast in the safe operatic repertory.

Here are some more clips. The Vergine dell'Angeli is exceptional; Suicidio, extremely interesting and the Tosti song very charming.

Vergine dell'angeli with Pinza
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVoJkN6znc

"Suicidio" Ponselle (1925)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVJjRuBpb2s

Rosa Ponselle - A vucchella ("Arietta di Posilippo") 1926
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CD2YOC3ZA&feature=related

ZB

[Sarastro]

Maria Guleghina. 0:) Although...she turned her head to the role of Turandot (poor, poor Calaf)...and even tried Violetta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2olFAyy2PcE

[zamyrabyrd]

Maria Guleghina. 0:) Although...she turned her head to the role of Turandot (poor, poor Calaf)...and even tried Violetta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2olFAyy2PcE

Er, you must be joking. Norma is still a Bel Canto role, not a prize for the soprano who makes the most noise.

ZB

[Sarastro]

Er, you must be joking.

How could I be serious after the dazzling Violetta!

[zamyrabyrd]

How could I be serious after the dazzling Violetta!

It depends on one's definition of "dazzling", in this case being run over by a bulldozer and seeing "stars".

By way of comparison Moffo should be breath of fresh air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGRnNA33Ww

This IS a difference between dramatic and aggressive. The first is having control over one's emotions but at the same time channeling them though the music. The second is being consumed by them and burning up everything in one's path.

(BTW, if Tsaras is reading this, I managed to listen through a few clips on youtube while searching for a really good example of the "Sempre Libera", and was disappointed by Tebaldi's live performance.)

ZB

[Lilas Pastia]

Violetta is one role Tebaldi wasn't really fit to sing. Coincidentally, as I was walking in the record store last month she was singing that very same aria. It took me a few seconds to recognize her. The tessitura doesn't sit comfortably for her in that particular portion of the role (Violetta as the carefree demi-mondaine). There's no exit door for the soprano in this aria if she starts it out as Un bel di. The final flights of coloratura are hammy and of course she ends it without an interpolated high E flat. De Los Angeles also eschewed that note in her recordings, but everything that came before was so smiling, glittering and downright tummy wobbling that  one doesn't mind. Violetta is one of these roles that may forever be the domain of fantasy. I read in an Avant-Scène Opera article about the "three voices" of Violetta and how it constantly challenges every diva. They always come short in one aspect or the other. Being a French magazine, the inevitable conclusion was that Callas was unapproachable  .

Tebaldi is best remembered for her Puccini, verismo and heavier Verdi roles, for which she was uncommonly well suited. The 15 disc Decca box that collects all her Puccini roles is one of the bargains oif the catalogue (30$ for the whole shebang - grab it ).

[zamyrabyrd]

Very interesting, Lilas. "La Tebaldi" on Decca has the main Verdi, Puccini and Rossini roles, lush and beautiful, one right after the other, but without those arias that require coloratura effort. The voice itself should have been suited for roulades but perhaps she didn't have the training or the willpower to sustain all that practice required for working the difficult passages into the voice.

Purists may smile at the omission of the traditional Eb at the end of "Sempre Libera", but since it is leading to the tonic anyway it is not out of place but can be the crowning glory if done right.

However, I did appreciate Tebaldi NOT going to the high Db at the end of Butterfly's entrance and the high C at the end of Act One that happens to be the dominant note of the two scales. It's just awful to hear soprano and tenor compete with each other on such a note that contrary to the composer's design goes nowhere (similarly with the  high C written for the soprano but NOT for the tenor at the end of the first act of La Boheme that usually sounds awful when louder than Mimi's floating tone).

ZB