Author Topic: Gerhard's Gazebo  (Read 17752 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 11:35:29 PM »
Sorry, that last post was a rambling mess,... like much else I write, haha! :P :-* 8) ;D

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15378
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2010, 04:18:42 PM »

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 01:14:30 PM »
Sorry, that last post was a rambling mess,... like much else I write, haha! :P :-* 8) ;D

Oh dear! How do I Delete stuff? :-[ ;D

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2011, 01:31:18 PM »
Nope, not me. I would never criticize anything for being too fragmentary. Most things are not fragmentary enough for my tastes!!

I think you'll probably warm to these quartets. Maybe not.


Actually, that SQ cd has been very much played since I got it,...hmm,... just this time last year. There is something about the Schoenberg-meets-Spain thing that makes No.1 so evocative to me,... maybe I just have Spain fantasies (never been)? This four mvmt. work seems to me very typical of the 'searching' '50s (Bloch, V-L, Malipiero, Chavez, Hindemith, Martinu, etc.,...). Gerhard's take sounds very much to me like Schoenberg's SQs 3-4 (especially 4, with the bells and whistles) filtered ever so slightly to sound less,... well,... hysterical (forgive me).

(also, I'm listening to Saint-Saens SQ No.1 now, so,...  ::))

Maybe it's the fact that this cd is only 38mins. that makes it so much of a snack? I can always include it in an evening's recital time and have plenty left over for,... well,... what to compare Gerhard's changing style (from '40s serialism to early '60s experimentalism)? Karel Husa? Samuel Adler? Ginastera?

I wonder about those Composers whose, let's say, SQ No.1 is in the more 'traditional' line (Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Hindemith, etc.,...), and their SQ 2-3 begins to sound more like Ligeti, or Penderecki, or other, later, Composers? (yes, that's not grammatical)

Anyhow, this disc of Gerhard SQs does remind me of the Husa disc of SQs, maybe the grittiness. I like grittiness!

Offline some guy

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2267
  • Location: Somewhere else
  • Currently Listening to:
    Music
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2011, 05:25:47 PM »
Glad to hear it.

And you remind me I've not listened to that disc myself for many months. In the dozens of months.

Gerhard's one of those people I get easily hooked by. That is, if I listen to one piece by him, I find that I don't rest until I've played all the CDs of his music that I have.

Offline mjwal

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Lagorce/France - Berlin
  • Currently Listening to:
    Goehr, Beethoven, William Lawes, Giuffre Trio, Steve Lacy, Eisler
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 10:18:16 AM »
Nope, not me. I would never criticize anything for being too fragmentary. Most things are not fragmentary enough for my tastes!!

I think you'll probably warm to these quartets. Maybe not. But I do want to put in a word for expectations. For not having any. Expectations in my experience are the very devil. Many a time I've had expectations and then had to put the thing aside, sometimes for several years, before I could come back to it and enjoy it simply for what it is.

Good luck, anyway, with Gerhard. I've liked him ever since that first LP of the Symphony no. 3, which I don't think is badly balanced at all--I think it's the best balanced: tape and orchestra equal partners. In the other two, the CD versions, the tape sounds weak and apologetic, as if the engineers didn't really want all those strange sounds interfering with the nice flutes and such. Having said that, the Bamert is by far the better of the two CD versions, in every way. And if you know only that, you know something very fine and satisfying indeed.

Too bad Chandos stopped with that series. I talked to some guy there (some other guy than me, "some guy") who said they might pick it back up, again. Hope so, but that was years ago, and there's been nothing since. It'd be nice to have a decent performance of the ballet Don Quixote, one that snaps and crackles like that LP of the suite (Dances from Don Quixote). Was that with Dorati? I've lost my notes to that album, that or I never made any when I burned that.
I haven't been listening to Gerhard recently, but when I originally bought the Bamert that was exactly my reaction: the tape sounds fail to come over with any strong sense of definition. So I am keeping my LP, though the PM Davies on the other side has been reissued on CD. As to The Plague, I taped a (German) performance from the radio years ago but can't find the tape - I remember it as a very disturbing piece (like the novel, really). I meant to go and hear it in London a few weeks ago, when I was in England, but I couldn't get my act together.  :'(- - still, I just found it (Dorati version) on Amazon.de for €4,80, hoorah. I thank all of you writing on this thread for the inspiration to look. - Wouldn't I love to hear that incidental music for King Lear mentioned on Wikipedia... - I remember hearing the Zodiac pieces far back in the day - anybody know the Nieuwenensemble versions?
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline some guy

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2267
  • Location: Somewhere else
  • Currently Listening to:
    Music
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 06:18:49 PM »
Thanks for bringing this up, mj. I had the Nieuwenensemble disc back when it was new (or nieuw), and I didn't like any of these pieces.

I grew to like all of them, eventually, in other performances. For some reason, I never pulled this back out until today to give it a listen.

Wow. This seems altogether just as perfect as it's possible to be. Inspired and inspiring performances. Crisp and precise but never "playing it safe." Everything wild and under perfect control. I'm so glad I kept this CD in my collection.

Offline lescamil

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 674
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2011, 07:14:31 PM »
I'll throw in another good word for the disk with the Nieuw Ensemble (this is the correct spelling). It's the same idiom as the 3 later symphonies, but a bit more accessible to my ears. It really leaves you wanting more after you hear it, and the Nieuw Ensemble is really spot on. They're an ensemble that always seems to play great, interesting pieces, given how idiosyncratic their ensemble is.
Want to chat about classical music on IRC? Go to:

irc.psigenix.net
#concerthall

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19772.0.html

-------------------------------------

Check out my YouTube page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jre58591

Offline mjwal

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Lagorce/France - Berlin
  • Currently Listening to:
    Goehr, Beethoven, William Lawes, Giuffre Trio, Steve Lacy, Eisler
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2011, 04:47:45 AM »
Thanks for the recommendations, chaps, and for the correction - I had sloppily misread the name of the Nieuw Ensemble from Amazon's listing. I shall definitely order this recording of the horoscope pieces.
Anybody else enjoy the Violin Concerto as much as I do? It certainly one of my favourite "post-SchoenBergian" violin concertos, with the Skalkottas and the Frankel (to mention only two...) I wish I had it here - most of my CDs are elsewhere until April.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline Amfortas

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 578
    • My YouTube Channel
  • Location: Cambridge, MA
  • Currently Listening to:
    20th C, 21st C, Mahler, Prokofiev, Roberto Gerhard, Frank Martin, Janáček
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 04:50:44 PM »
Wondering if anyone recorded Gerhard's THE PLAGUE in this performance narrated by Paul McGann:

http://www.cefc.org.uk/concert-calendar/roberto-gerhard-the-plague-and-john-adams-harmonium/
''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)

Offline mjwal

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Lagorce/France - Berlin
  • Currently Listening to:
    Goehr, Beethoven, William Lawes, Giuffre Trio, Steve Lacy, Eisler
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2011, 02:48:59 AM »
Wondering if anyone recorded Gerhard's THE PLAGUE in this performance narrated by Paul McGann:

http://www.cefc.org.uk/concert-calendar/roberto-gerhard-the-plague-and-john-adams-harmonium/
I believe not. I was in England at the time and a friend of mine in London who sings in CEFC told me about the concert, for which I would have had to travel from Lancaster to London at an awkward time - I couldn't make it and emailed later that I hoped there was a recording (as there so often is), but was disappointed to gather that he had seen no signs of recording at the concert.
But the McCowen/Dorati version is so good that one's disappointment is mitigated.
To return to the controversial subject of the tape sounds in Symphony #3 - some guy and I for, all others apparently against the balance in the Prausnitz recording - all those who do not have the LP can check this out by going to The Music Parlour blog and clicking on Prausnitz in the list of conductors. Listening to this again (my LP is elsewhere) I find it difficult to understand why the tape sounds should be quieter; the Chandos CD (also elsewhere) sounded undernourished in this respect, though I cannot make a close comparison at the moment. Yes, it sounds so 60s - well, it was.Looking at it from a "period instrument" point of view, those home-made sounds have a certain shock effect that has been ironed out in the Bamert performance. Try it and see. And take note: the symphony has a name, Collages, which should be taken seriously. Gerhard was around for performances by Schwarz and then Prausnitz, for whom he prepared the stereo version of the tape.For an interesting report on Gerhard's work with tape-mixed sounds, see
http://www2.hud.ac.uk/roberto-gerhard-archive/downloads/15-Karman.pdf
- please please please, one wants to scream, issue the 1963/64 BBC recording of Graves's Anger of Achilles (with a full score by Gerhard), which won the Prix Italia in 1965.
P.S. This too from that Gerhard archive: http://www2.hud.ac.uk/roberto-gerhard-archive/downloads/Carlos-Duque.pdf
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 03:04:09 AM by mjwal »
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline Amfortas

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 578
    • My YouTube Channel
  • Location: Cambridge, MA
  • Currently Listening to:
    20th C, 21st C, Mahler, Prokofiev, Roberto Gerhard, Frank Martin, Janáček
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2011, 05:28:40 AM »
@mjwal: Thanks for that information. I agree the McCowen one is good (better than the one with Lonsdale on Auvidis), but there is always room for another, and Paul McGann would likely do a great job. It's probably too much to hope for a commercial recording with McGann



''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)

Offline not edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3827
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2011, 06:22:38 AM »
@mjwal: thanks for those links; great to find commercially unavailable material like the Prausnitz 3rd and the Del Mar Concerto for Orchestra.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Amfortas

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 578
    • My YouTube Channel
  • Location: Cambridge, MA
  • Currently Listening to:
    20th C, 21st C, Mahler, Prokofiev, Roberto Gerhard, Frank Martin, Janáček
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2011, 06:34:00 AM »
@mjwal: thanks for those links; great to find commercially unavailable material like the Prausnitz 3rd and the Del Mar Concerto for Orchestra.

I can second that recommendation, they are fine performances. That site does a real service to music lovers
''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)

Offline UB

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 263
  • In South Africa we have really big cats!
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2011, 07:51:19 AM »
The LP of Dorati - Plague in excellent condition is being offered in a couple of places for about $140 US but no bids. The only one that I can find that was actually sold was in 2009 for $80 US plus $40 shipping from Switzerland. Guess I will be careful the next time I play mine.
I am not in the entertainment business. Harrison Birtwistle 2010

Offline Amfortas

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 578
    • My YouTube Channel
  • Location: Cambridge, MA
  • Currently Listening to:
    20th C, 21st C, Mahler, Prokofiev, Roberto Gerhard, Frank Martin, Janáček
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2011, 09:16:32 AM »
The LP of Dorati - Plague in excellent condition is being offered in a couple of places for about $140 US but no bids. The only one that I can find that was actually sold was in 2009 for $80 US plus $40 shipping from Switzerland. Guess I will be careful the next time I play mine.

the recording has been issued on CD
 
''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)

Offline some guy

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2267
  • Location: Somewhere else
  • Currently Listening to:
    Music
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2011, 10:40:12 AM »
[P]lease please please, one wants to scream, issue the 1963/64 BBC recording of Graves's Anger of Achilles (with a full score by Gerhard), which won the Prix Italia in 1965.
QFT!!

And thank you very much for the García-Karman article. Pure gold. The more I learn about Gerhard, the cooler he seems.

Offline mjwal

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Lagorce/France - Berlin
  • Currently Listening to:
    Goehr, Beethoven, William Lawes, Giuffre Trio, Steve Lacy, Eisler
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2011, 12:54:30 PM »
QFT!!

And thank you very much for the García-Karman article. Pure gold. The more I learn about Gerhard, the cooler he seems.

Just checked that abbr. on Urban Dictionary - either "The branch of quantum physics that is concerned with the theory of fields; it was motivated by the question of how an atom radiates light as its electrons jump from excited states" or alternatively "Quoted For Truth. Generally used on internet forum after quoting someone to make sure they cannot go back and change what they've already posted. Sometimes used to express you agree with the opinion. "QFT, brutha." is different from "QFT you fucking bitch!". Remain slightly puzzled ;-)
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline some guy

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2267
  • Location: Somewhere else
  • Currently Listening to:
    Music
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2011, 03:27:59 PM »
Don't be puzzled, brutha!

Offline techniquest

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 282
Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2011, 11:31:36 AM »
I would like to echo what has been previously said regarding 'The Plague'. Definitely go for the Dorato recording - it is terrifying; a fascinating piece....don't listen to it alone... :o
I'd also like to mention the piece that first got me into Gerhard back when I was about 15 - The Concerto for Orchestra. I grew up with the BBCSO / del Mar vinyl recording and although I have the BBCSO/ Bamert recording on Chandos (coupled with the Symphony No.2), I still prefer del Mar's rendition. If you've not heard the concerto, I'd highly recommend it!