Author Topic: Gerhard's Gazebo  (Read 17729 times)

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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2011, 06:48:07 AM »
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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2011, 12:33:50 PM »
I just heard Gerhard's Violin Sonata Gemini, and I'm just bowled over. I remember thinking the opening of Stravinsky's Duo Concertant was original sounding, but Gerhard's sword fighting intensity is unlike anything I've ever heard for this combination. It reminds me slightly of Xenakis's Dikhthas, but this piece is even much more extreme. It's as if the Xenakis piano piece Herma was being played with the violin piece Mikka. Is anyone as impressed with this piece as I am?

It's on the Largo disc 'Portraits & Horoscopes', along with three Late pieces for ensemble. Gerhard's very last piece, Leo, for ensemble, is very incisive, reminding me of Boulez, and Castiglioni, with maybe a bit of Maderna's freedom. It seems as if only one instrument plays at a time in its 20min. span, but this is not the case, as Gerhard deftly handles his forces to strikingly individual and progressive results. Gerhard seems to be a bit ahead of his peers in the last ounce of sheen in the AvantGarde.

I have also now become addicted to the cd of the two SQs. I hear the Ardittis have a recording in the can, so, that should be interesting.

I believe I have most all of his Chamber Music, and, he certainly progressed light years between '59-'69. I have held off on the Symphonies, but not anymore. Gerhard just has that winning disposition, no?

snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2011, 07:42:53 AM »
Well, it looks like Gerhard's Symphonies are coming up fast on The List.

I'll look over the Thread, but, what's the skinny between Chandos and Auvidis (and Davis in No.4... especially concerning the tape integration)? I can't believe the Chandos No.4 is so expensive on Amazon, yikes!

Offline not edward

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2011, 08:57:18 AM »
Well, it looks like Gerhard's Symphonies are coming up fast on The List.

I'll look over the Thread, but, what's the skinny between Chandos and Auvidis (and Davis in No.4... especially concerning the tape integration)? I can't believe the Chandos No.4 is so expensive on Amazon, yikes!
Davis in #4 isn't competitive in my opinion. He doesn't seem comfortable in the idiom, and I'd rank his recording a long way behind either the Chandos or Auvidis versions.

In general, I prefer the Chandos recordings over Auvidis; though the Auvidis recordings are sympathetically interpreted the Chandos discs have a clear edge sonically and in performance terms (the Tenerife orchestra's string sections seem a little lacking in weight and numbers at times, too). However, the Auvidis 2nd is still essential as they use Gerhard's incomplete revision from the end of his life (Chandos uses the original version of the work); the single-disc version of this comes with the 4th, which I'd regard as the strongest of Pablo Perez's readings and fully worth acquiring on its own grounds.
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Offline some guy

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2011, 10:36:31 AM »
To what are you referring with the words "the tape integration"?

If it's to a tape part, then that's symphony no. 3 "Collages". But something else?

Generally speaking, I think Bamert gets Gerhard pretty well, though I far prefer Benet's Pandora, and while Bamert balances the tape and instrument parts of Collages better than Pérez did, but neither get things done as well as Prausnitz did on a recording back in LP days. (Your mileage may vary. People who don't like tape music prefer Pérez, as he mutes the tape part pretty far, but everyone prefers Bamert's handling of the orchestra. I think Prausnitz did better in both.)

I like Davis' 4th, but I haven't listened to all three recordings of that back to back, so now I'm curious....

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2011, 10:51:56 AM »
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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2011, 11:27:32 AM »
To what are you referring with the words "the tape integration"?

If it's to a tape part, then that's symphony no. 3 "Collages". But something else?

Generally speaking, I think Bamert gets Gerhard pretty well, though I far prefer Benet's Pandora, and while Bamert balances the tape and instrument parts of Collages better than Pérez did, but neither get things done as well as Prausnitz did on a recording back in LP days. (Your mileage may vary. People who don't like tape music prefer Pérez, as he mutes the tape part pretty far, but everyone prefers Bamert's handling of the orchestra. I think Prausnitz did better in both.)

I like Davis' 4th, but I haven't listened to all three recordings of that back to back, so now I'm curious....
Davis in #4 isn't competitive in my opinion. He doesn't seem comfortable in the idiom, and I'd rank his recording a long way behind either the Chandos or Auvidis versions.

In general, I prefer the Chandos recordings over Auvidis; though the Auvidis recordings are sympathetically interpreted the Chandos discs have a clear edge sonically and in performance terms (the Tenerife orchestra's string sections seem a little lacking in weight and numbers at times, too). However, the Auvidis 2nd is still essential as they use Gerhard's incomplete revision from the end of his life (Chandos uses the original version of the work); the single-disc version of this comes with the 4th, which I'd regard as the strongest of Pablo Perez's readings and fully worth acquiring on its own grounds.

Thanks guys.

btw- I had the tape thing mixed up,... 3, not 4. But you clarified my concern, thanks.

snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2011, 11:27:59 AM »

snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2011, 06:35:10 AM »
Just got the Chandos with No.3, Epithalamion, and the PC.

I really enjoyed the 'anti-symphony' Epithalamion, a very substantial piece, and am waiting for the morning drive to hear No.3.

I hear the PC recording here is 'bad', so, I'm not even going to listen. Perhaps Naxos?

Offline lescamil

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2011, 09:02:31 AM »
The recording of the piano concerto on Naxos is superb. The Chandos recording is subpar, but only because the first movement is played far too slowly and with no 'pop' to it. The other movements are fine, though.
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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2011, 02:52:10 PM »
The recording of the piano concerto on Naxos is superb. The Chandos recording is subpar, but only because the first movement is played far too slowly and with no 'pop' to it. The other movements are fine, though.

I will shun this PC then!

Listened to Symphony No.3 for the first time. Very nice, and yes, it does remind me a little of Varese (only in certain atmospheres),... Gerhard certainly seems to be writing the kind of stuff the Boulez Generation wouldn't write until the mid-'70s. Still, it wasn't the MOST mind blowing thing I've ever heard, but I'm sure it will grow on me. I did like the Epithalamion better though.

Offline some guy

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2011, 12:21:49 AM »
Yeah, ya really gotta have the Prausnitz to get that "blown away" feeling.

And even then, it might just be too late in the day for that. The piece is from 1960, after all.

Still, if it's gonna blow you away, it's pretty much gonna have to be the Prausnitz.

I made a couple of burns of that LP for myself. I can copy those CDs for anyone who wants them.

If some enterprising company decides to put that out there in a digital copy, you have to promise to buy it, though!

Anyway, I just today did that listening to the three performances of the fourth back to back. Davis' clearly comes in third, it's true. I still like it, but it's not really echt Gerhard, it's true. The other two, though. Yeah, baby!! They are good. I prefer the Perez over the Bamert, but they're still both good.

I have two recordings of the piano concerto, the Bamert (with the 3rd symphony and that spectacular Epithalamion piece) and one with Foster on an Auvidis CD that also has the harpsichord concerto (a sweet piece) and the Nonet (another sweet piece). I have to listen to those back to back now, too. Just because. And then, when my corner store (yes, I still have a corner store in my neighborhood) gets the Naxos of that in, I'll buy that. Just because.

I've listened to the two Epithalamion recordings I have back to back, years ago. They are both fine. They are very different from each other. (I'd like one that includes the goodnesses of both of those into one performance.)

Offline lescamil

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2011, 10:18:42 AM »
The harpsichord concerto is a really cool piece. I've heard both the Naxos and Auvidis recordings (along with the piano concerto) and both are satisfying. You'll never hear a harpsichord concerto like this one! I wish Gerhard had written more for keyboard instruments in his lifetime. He had a real knack for writing for it, even in his symphonies and orchestral works. I've taken a look at the score for the piano concerto, and it definitely shows the work of someone who knew the piano inside and out, especially in the middle movement (believe it or not).
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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2011, 07:55:43 AM »
Symphonies 2 & 4 (Montaigne)

Everyone was recommending this issue for No.4, and the fact that No.2 here the revision, whereas the Chandos is the original. Some have said the sound here (especially the strings) isn't as good as the Chandos, and it's not as lush as Chandos, but has a fine sound as it is.

I must have had so many expectations over No.4 that I was kind of taken aback at what I finally heard. I just wasn't expecting what I got, even though it doesn't sound any different than what I expected.

I know my initial reaction to No.4 was correct, because, as soon as I heard No.2, I was boweled over. THIS immediately became my favorite. I don't really know what it was, but  No.2 made a very strong impression: will have to get the Chandos to compare.

After a few listen, No.4 came into focus mo Let's start over with that!! ;) I must say, that this Montaigne disc has more Avant sounds, pound for pound, than many better known examples. Frankly, the sheer proliferation of ideas come at you at such a speed that Gerhard certainly gets points for not being lazy in the note writing department! Good stuff!

snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2011, 08:09:20 PM »
Symphonies 2 & 4 (Montaigne)

Everyone was recommending this issue for No.4, and the fact that No.2 here the revision, whereas the Chandos is the original. Some have said the sound here (especially the strings) isn't as good as the Chandos, and it's not as lush as Chandos, but has a fine sound as it is.

I must have had so many expectations over No.4 that I was kind of taken aback at what I finally heard. I just wasn't expecting what I got, even though it doesn't sound any different than what I expected.

I know my initial reaction to No.4 was correct, because, as soon as I heard No.2, I was boweled over. THIS immediately became my favorite. I don't really know what it was, but  No.2 made a very strong impression: will have to get the Chandos to compare.

After a few listen, No.4 came into focus mo Let's start over with that!! ;) I must say, that this Montaigne disc has more Avant sounds, pound for pound, than many better known examples. Frankly, the sheer proliferation of ideas come at you at such a speed that Gerhard certainly gets points for not being lazy in the note writing department! Good stuff!

On the second day of listening No.4 has come into full relief. Yes, it is dizzyingly bubbly: the sections where it sounds like the xylophone is an up/down escalator are amazingly put together. Gerhard's 'math' is certainly very precise, in a Messiaen way, very chiseled and delineated.

The Montaigne recording is very 'fresco' like, sounding like a relief, very bracing and fresh, though I could imagine a more 'spectacular' recording. I'm sure the Chandos sounds better, but I hear this one's performance way take the edge? Since the Chandos No.4 is a bit expensive anyway, I went ahead and ordered No.2 to complement the Montaigne (since one is a resvision blah blah).

Gerhard is a very 'precise' Composer, no? I'm noticing this now. Lots of tight attacks, followed by strings or winds. Anyhow, I'm really really impressed with these two pieces; overall, Gerhard is quite the Total Package when it comes to the '60s.

snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2011, 03:26:36 PM »
Symphony 2 & Concerto for Orchestra (Chandos)


I'm really at a loss as to how the two versions of No.2 differ (Montaigne claims the revision, Chandos not). I still hear the interesting 'rain drop' theme (in the woodblocks) at the beginning of the slow movement, I still hear percussion punctuating what seems to be every other phrase, the whole Symphony still ends in the most enigmatic, just stops, way. I really like Gerhard's way here, but I'm not 'getting it' too well.

The Concerto for Orchestra, also, defied my expectations. This one too I am left scratching my head. I think I liked the Epithalamion better. Anyhow, I'm pretty overwhelmed with Gerhard's output here; it's going to take some listens to get through the maze of No.2.

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2012, 10:15:58 AM »

Offline lescamil

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2012, 12:00:28 PM »
I'm usually not a string quartet guy, but after recently doing a quick survey of his 4 symphonies and some of his chamber music, I'd now really like to hear those string quartets. His serial music is some of the most"listenable" to me, and he really had a knack for writing for small ensembles. Shame they weren't recorded sooner.
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Offline Brewski

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2012, 12:08:01 PM »
FINALLY!! :o ;D

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-String-Quartets-Gerhard/dp/B009SCVJ7Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1356027231&sr=1-1&keywords=arditti

Probably means the Complete Ferneyhough SQs set is next?

Thanks, that looks like a great disc. I've heard a lot of Gerhard's orchestral music, but none of his chamber works.

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snyprrr

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Re: Gerhard's Gazebo
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2012, 01:57:21 PM »
I'm usually not a string quartet guy, but after recently doing a quick survey of his 4 symphonies and some of his chamber music, I'd now really like to hear those string quartets. His serial music is some of the most"listenable" to me, and he really had a knack for writing for small ensembles. Shame they weren't recorded sooner.


Thanks, that looks like a great disc. I've heard a lot of Gerhard's orchestral music, but none of his chamber works.

--Bruce

The SQs, and I believe all his Chamber Music, is on the Metier label. The SQs are with the Kreutzer SQ. The SQs proper are truly of High Quality (tee hee), and sooo different from one another. No.1 is the most perfect Scheobergian SQ I think I've heard, and No.2 has all the bells and whistles of early-'60s Avant Garde (Penderecki-meets-Berio-meets-Lutoslawski). The sound on the Metier disc is of major eh quality (flat and dullish), I am so sure this new recording will bring out the burnished tones of the instruments much better.

Yes, this news is worthy of an adult diaper! ;D Gerhard infused his Avant tendencies with a flair 15 years ahead of his time.