Author Topic: Xenakis's Xen  (Read 111125 times)

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Offline Brewski

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #620 on: August 09, 2017, 05:44:24 PM »
Yeah, Xenakis stresses me out sometimes because I've been completely obsessed with his music for so long, when I'm doing anything my mind automatically defaults to thinking about Xenakis quotes/interviews or pieces themselves  :-[

After a while, I have to put those Beethoven string quartets on, right?  ???

Nothing wrong with being obsessed by a composer. But yes, the Beethoven quartets are a good counterpoint. (Or something completely different from those, like Lalo, or Ives. OK, I'm kidding about one of those.)

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #621 on: August 10, 2017, 06:28:55 AM »

 :laugh:


That's right. Room to breathe is likely a good thing, for some reason a lot of modernism has just not been of interest lately. It's not that I listen to it now and think "this sucks" or "I don't understand this music anymore" but I just don't feel compelled to listen to it much, which is really strange  ??? as I write this kind of music myself.....

Well, I had that "meh" feeling when I finally broke out some minor-key Haydn Symphonies. Actually, they were very pleasant...

LOL

I am TOTALLY stuck, and I don't even know where anything's going at the moment. Tomorrow's gig has me thinking 'Kung Fu Fighting' instead of brain food music. ::) :(

Offline petrarch

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #622 on: August 15, 2017, 03:07:42 PM »
Got this in the mail last week:



So far, some good reading on La Legende d'Eer and its parallels with Jonchaies.
//p
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snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #623 on: August 16, 2017, 05:47:47 AM »
Got this in the mail last week:



So far, some good reading on La Legende d'Eer and its parallels with Jonchaies.

wow, 350 pages!... any epiphanies yet?

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #624 on: August 19, 2017, 08:43:38 AM »
The choral works at the moment are my present favorites, giving me a real thrill ride too  :-* :-* :-* :-*  8)

Is that the Devil Girl from Mars, or what??? She so hawt!


Took 'Lichens' out yesterday... yes... mm mm mm... the formation of Pantopeia... kinetic lightning... energy... forming, breaking apart... profusions of living eneregies... then the catastrophic landslide of percussion at the end...

... in a way, which makes 'Horos' even that much more like sand dune of death in the blazing noon sun, a monolithic sand dune of tones, vortex... and then 'Ata', all movement... the the "frozen" works of 1991...

WHAT A PROGRESSION!!


Let's discuss my most "hated" piece, 'DOX-ORKH', with that silly dance rhythm, which I have no come to terms with. Now I'm just glad it's there. I was surprised how regressive I found it, even with the Arditti rollercoaster laser beam going most of the time. It was one of the few recordings available at the time when we needed CLASSSIC IX to satisfy. It was almost as if IronMaiden had written a ballad!!

eh?

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #625 on: August 20, 2017, 08:25:23 PM »
No (great film though), it's Peggy Gravel from Desperate Living; a favorite film, which I've been talking about quite a bit here recently.
To say the least, she's a mental nutcase and towards the end of the movie she dresses up as a witch, to stir a pot filled with rabies  :D

Yea, Lichens is still an all-time favorite piece of music. An entirely unique Xenakis piece, heavy, euphoric and fucking catchy!

You hate Dox-Orkh  :(
That's a cool violin concerto, do you like it's cousin Troorkh?  ???

Actually Iron Maiden have written several ballads, they're usually too "proggy" to be straight up ballads though, the most straight forward being this really 80s sounding "Wasting Love". But their debut album has a ballad called "Strange world" which is beautiful, my favorite of their softer songs (despite that most of their songs are umm....duel electric guitars and dun dada dun, gallops  :laugh: )

Not a big Maiden fan tbh (despite mentioning how I really love those three particular albums in the non-classical thread), though I've got/heard all their music. I'm more of a Judas Priest fan  0:)


But, as to this thread. The IX choral works are really doing it for me at the moment. I've all of a sudden been feeling like Oresteia a lot lately, awesome cycle!  :-* :-*

1) I let John Waters come on to me once, and, I also bumped into Depp at the Club Charles during the 'Cry Baby' shoot.

2) It sthould have read that I have NOW come to terms with 'DOX-ORKH'... 'Troorkh' is Greeeeat!!! like an ice kingdom...

3) 'Oresteia'?... can't handle it just now,... 'Nuits' is Great- I really like the one on the Arion label.


late, must crash...zzzZZzzzzzZzZZzzz...

Offline petrarch

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #626 on: August 26, 2017, 05:39:39 AM »
wow, 350 pages!... any epiphanies yet?

None yet, but the detailed account about the extant tapes of La Légende d'Eer is very interesting. For instance, that the recording on Mode, supposedly being the one that is technically the most modern and faithfully recreated from the original tapes, suffers from having its entire last section (~13 minutes) digitally transferred at the wrong sample rate (44.1 instead of 48 kHz), resulting in it sounding about a semitone and a half lower than it should. Or that its spatialization doesn't match the presentation that Xenakis himself did or implied in the sketches. Another interesting detail is that this isn't a problem unique to that work: Similar issues are present in the releases of Persepolis on Asphodel and Edition RZ. For La Légende d'Eer, the authoritative version seems to be the one on Montaigne, which I much prefer to the Mode.

I haven't compared the various versions of those works yet and will leave that for a rainy day.
//p
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The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #627 on: August 26, 2017, 07:38:33 AM »
Do you mean 'hit on' you?  :D in a bar?
That'd be amazing, "Waiter, can I have three pink flamingos and a cocktail"  :laugh:

If you like Waters, there's discussion of him in my film discussion thread ;)


Oresteia is my meat and potatoes right now  8)



I may have periods without listening to Xenakis but whenever I return to him after a break, I feel that same passionate love and affection. His music just means the world to me  :'(
I listened to Keqrops, Archoripsis and Eonta last night amongst my varied listening......also Plekto earlier today when I was sitting around doing nothing in the music department at my Uni  :D


Dude, I remember (was it in this thread?  ??? ) you once mentioning Mosaiques (that obscure IX work), do you have it?

1) John Waters... in a bar... the Club Charles... famous Baltimore landmark (eh, sort of)

2) 'Mosaiques' is supposed to be a cut-and-paste of works during the early '90s boon... no tapes I know of... ahhh, now you remind me of the "lost" 'Koiranoi'... will IT ever see any release?

Yes Snyprrr, I catagorise my life into two:

Before discovering Xenakis/Metastasis
After discovering Xenakis/Metastasis

 :laugh:



I took the Anastenaria/Troorkh/Ais WERGO CD out. 'Ais' is one head shaking piece! This is definitely the best performance, the earlier one by the singer Spiros Sakkas (the other one being on Timpani). I couldn't really handle it until I heard this original version (same as on Erato LP, I presume).

I got through the first two parts of 'Anastenaria', and am about to listen again to Charles Zachary Bornstein conduct 'Metastaseis'. Tamayo's my hands down favorite, but I remember liking this one too.

will report

None yet, but the detailed account about the extant tapes of La Légende d'Eer is very interesting. For instance, that the recording on Mode, supposedly being the one that is technically the most modern and faithfully recreated from the original tapes, suffers from having its entire last section (~13 minutes) digitally transferred at the wrong sample rate (44.1 instead of 48 kHz), resulting in it sounding about a semitone and a half lower than it should. Or that its spatialization doesn't match the presentation that Xenakis himself did or implied in the sketches. Another interesting detail is that this isn't a problem unique to that work: Similar issues are present in the releases of Persepolis on Asphodel and Edition RZ. For La Légende d'Eer, the authoritative version seems to be the one on Montaigne, which I much prefer to the Mode.

I haven't compared the various versions of those works yet and will leave that for a rainy day.

...leaving me wondering how 'Persepolis' on the Accord 'Alpha&Omega' Box fares...

very interesting ;)


I don't know why but all of a sudden I can't stop listening to Metastasis  ???

Sure, the work was the most profound turning point I've had in music but it's by far not his best work or a favorite of mine  IMO  :laugh:
I don't listen to it much otherwise, so it makes this odd...........

Here's my Composition Gift to you. Maybe we'll write it together? It's "the Xenakis guitar piece" he never wrote. Eh?

1) It would have a section for the asynchronous ascending and descending lines- I have tried working on this and it flippin beyond my patience to try to play out what I'm hearing,... and notating it wooould be interesting.

2) a section of octave/same note proliferation, with so of those 'Mikka' semi-tones.

3) a grinding stochastic section lasting longer than it should (LOL!!).

4) has to be some "special effects" section with, let's say, three pre-chosen sounds (ex: slide glissando, body/palm hit, "secret chord" figurations).

5) using the guitar's ability to play the same note many times at once (see: 2)).


and so on....


Game? $:)

Offline petrarch

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #628 on: August 27, 2017, 04:41:56 AM »
Are we the two biggest IX fans?  :o

I got him to sign my copy of the programme notes at the premiere of Dämmerschein... Top that! :D
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #629 on: August 28, 2017, 08:16:57 PM »
Ok, you win. I would be sent to hospital if I met him, I'd probably faint and get into a coma  :laugh:

yea, petrarch, Edward, someguy, ... Mandryka?,... Scarpia?,... James,... there's a lot of people on board. We're but minnows!

BUT,... EVERY SUPERFAN IS A SUPERFAN!! lol :laugh:


'Ais' lingers... almost took 'DOX-ORKH' out... shoon, shoon

Sis i say I listened to 'Lichens'? It certainly IS kinetic.


I see myself drifting towards 'Herma'. I have a few recordings, but, I imagine I would point to Aki Takahashi; however, I do like the "pre-historic" sounding Georges Perlmutermacher(wassisname?) on that EMI 2CD set. He is very slow, but it brings things out in an oddly old fashioned way. Do you know of a transformative 'Herma'? Maybe the computer one on NEOS? hmm....


I have just about broken free of IgorMania2017... almost there...lol, but, Xenakis is there to pick up the baton.

I used to be so wide ranging, now I can barely get through one Composer at a time. Oy, my back!! But, no, Stravinsky was about as close to the end as anything for me. Now I really just go back to square one: 1951.

I'm not jaded.

I'm just not sure how much I've ever needed a "Composer" who was born after 1963. (or 58 for that matter)---so to speak





it's late, i'm delirious...sleeeeep......

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #630 on: September 01, 2017, 07:17:40 AM »
This Ais



(which I've listened to plenty of times in the past, classic vinyl  :-* ), is radically even more thrilling than the Tamayo (even though I've listened to that recording more times).

Listened to the Tamayo 'Ais'. Oy, what a pale comparison to the Erato! Sakkas is really not able to go whole-hog in the latter performance, and, oy oy oy, the percussionist has more stick hits than an out of work rasta!! The orchestra is also a little receded, but, I did notice sooome intriguing detail that I didn't pick up from the original, including some pretty beefy percussion (shame the young lady wasn't transcendental).

Sylvio Gualdo kind of cracks me up!... looking a little like Wolfgfang Puck :D


I also got a minute into 'Tracees'- ahhhh, what tonic!!!

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #631 on: September 03, 2017, 05:00:38 AM »
Would it be a fair statement to say that Eonta is both one of the weirdest (as in, uncharacteristic) Xenakis works and also the greatest chronologically of the early period (before he wrote Oresteia) ??

Sure.

It took the Mode/Takahashi recording for this piece to speak to me. That one seems transcendent to me. The original Yuji T. version seems like a museum piece to me. And other versions have fallen far short (the London Brass on Teldec?). I'll have to find it here...


btw- 'N'Shima' is the one that reeeally drives me crazy. W.T.F.????? Haha! I prefer the ColLegno to the Mode, but it's not a piece I have warmed to

"ack ack ack ack ah ah ah ack ack ack"

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:




Oh, I getting nostalgic for '60s Xenakis :-*

kishnevi

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #632 on: September 03, 2017, 04:24:55 PM »
Is it just me or does it feel out of place when you hear a mallet in a IX work? (besides Pleiades)

Mallets I associate too much with Messiaen, Boulez, Messiaen, Zappa, Boulez and Zappa  :laugh:

What about the percussion works?!

BTW, on your advice I ordered the Jack Quartet recording of the SQ works. (You had pointed to Tetras as a good place to start with IX.)

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #633 on: September 22, 2017, 06:54:37 AM »
Listened to Dikhthas and Plekto before when I was doing some chores, they're both such tasty works..sooo yumm!

The fast piano parts and lyrical violin in Dikhthas, and the exotic flute and groovy percussion in Plekto  8)

Which 'Plekto'? The one on Mode is @8mins., and the one on BVHAAST is @12.5; quite a compare there! Overall, the slower tempo seems more correct, the Mode has its moments, too.

'Keren'? ONLY by Lindberg! Have you hear the ultra embarrassing ADDA Sluchin, not to be confused with his later Erato? That original one is pretty pathetic, imo. Worth the shock face you get! ;D


Thinking about 'Horos',...

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #634 on: September 28, 2017, 11:11:04 AM »

The mode in this case, dis' pretty swell  ;D


Horos is damn fine!

Broke out the Abbado 'Kekrops': such a unifying work! I still think the opening sounds like 'Jaws vs. Predator vs. Kraken',... the piano even beat hammering, with the strings announcing oncoming peril. The recording isn't the last word in clarity, but the giant blocks crashing into one another are rendered fairly well. The harp makes this piece for me.


Haven't thought about Igor for a while now,... amazing how it all happens, eh?

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #635 on: October 02, 2017, 07:29:01 AM »
I have never been more meh about Xenakis in all my life, this is not a good sign  :-[

oh dear!


Just enjoyed 'Ata', his most Stravinskian piece?


He is what he is, and he's not what he's not. Try 'Mists'...

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Xenakis's Xen ERGMA SCHMERGMA
« Reply #636 on: October 21, 2017, 08:53:22 AM »
Ergma

Mondriaan SQ (Vanguard)
JACK SQ (Mode)
Danel SQ (Stradivarius)

Gotta say, I thought the Danel sounded like they were having the most difficulty with the piece. I don't know how Mandryka hears it, but I intonation "humanity" in practically every utterance- when they do play "together", one hears the "mistakes" even more. I'd almost like to hear a Romantic treatment with full vibratos, lol!!

The Mondriaan have the debut, I think it's from 1996. Their's is as raw and wooly as the Danel, but I think they hit the diamonds a little better. I tend to prefer this one over JACK, but, the two sound quite different in terms of trimming.

The JACK have the smoothest rendition, along with having a silky recording, which the other two don't. I always thought the presentation hear took away from the violence, not that the JACK play reticently.

Still, yes, they all show signs of humanity when this piece in particular demands absolute mechanism. I'd rather hear it played by robots for now until the species develops beyond daily neurosis.- meaning, how can PEOPLE, who sleep, eat, and shit, play music that demands to be absolutely human-free?

Hey, they made a computer-rendition CD of the keyboard works...


Why don't one of youse guys punch 'Ergma' into your Sibelius and lets see what it sounds like with NO vibrato!!

I've heard the Mondriaan now I like it, I don't know whether I like it more than Danel, or whether it makes me like the quartet, but I like it. Thanks for pointing it out.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

snyprrr

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Re: Xenakis's Xen ERGMA SCHMERGMA
« Reply #637 on: October 23, 2017, 07:28:20 AM »
I've heard the Mondriaan now I like it, I don't know whether I like it more than Danel, or whether it makes me like the quartet, but I like it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Not a piece I want to return just today! ;) Today would be a 'Charisma' day... or 'Persepolis'...

kishnevi

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #638 on: November 01, 2017, 05:20:32 PM »
Arkivmusic shows this as a new (10/27) release.

kishnevi

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Re: Xenakis's Xen
« Reply #639 on: November 01, 2017, 06:12:26 PM »
Quoth Arkiv's listing
The public would have to wait until after the composer’s death before hearing the original version of Metastaseis A, which took place in 2008 in Torino under the direction of Arturo Tamayo, who conducts the work in this recording, its first commercial release.

So is the Metastaseis A an existing recording now commercially released or a new recording by Tamayo?