Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)

[Klaze]

Recently acquired my first Xenakis; 2 of the orchestral works volumes on Timpani, and the Warner (Erato) 2CD, and enjoying it very much.

So what's the best strategy for getting the (core) percussion works on disc, price/quality/availability considered?

[snyprrr]

Recently acquired my first Xenakis; 2 of the orchestral works volumes on Timpani, and the Warner (Erato) 2CD, and enjoying it very much.

So what's the best strategy for getting the (core) percussion works on disc, price/quality/availability considered?

hmmm... that's a tough one. The Schick/Mode 3CD set is very good, but 'Rebonds' and 'Psappha' are just not up to the competition there.

1) REBONDS = Markus Leoson on Caprice- I'm sorry, but there is NO OTHER, - and you can't make me budge on that!!
                         Sadlo, on Koch, is ok (quite slow, as are most of the competition), but has a more detailed recording than
                         most.

2) PSAPPHA = GertM. on BIS or Markus Hauke. They are the only two who get it right (under 11 minutes). Adain, Sadlo
                        is quite slow, but the Teldec recording is delicious.

I suppose you can try Pablo Caniero(?)...

3) PLEIADES = I swear by the Strassburg on DENON. The HarmoniaMundi disc sounds like it was recorded in a closet.
                         The BIS is also excellent. The Mode is also good, as is the Erato. Just stay away from the HarmoniaMundi.

4) PERSEPHASSA = Either the original, or the Mode...

[GioCar]

3) PLEIADES = I swear by the Strassburg on DENON. The HarmoniaMundi disc sounds like it was recorded in a closet.
                         The BIS is also excellent. The Mode is also good, as is the Erato. Just stay away from the HarmoniaMundi.

Any opinion on this recent LINN?

[snyprrr]

Nope. Sorry. Not for noobs. He's gonna have to cut his teeth (wallet) on the "originals". The Mode set is strictly for fanboiz- it was the last thing I got, I didn't even want it, but, I figured "the sooound"... well, it's some some of the best, and worst, interpretations I've heard.

Again, 'Rebonds' and 'Psappha' are both terminally slowww, just compare either to, respectively, Leoson or Mortenson. I IMPLORE THEE ohe goode sire!! I must needs satisfaction!!

And, he MUST have the Strassburg/DENON 'Pleiades'.

There are RULES here!!! No Mode Box before you eat your veggies- Leoson, Mortenson, DENON.


We can have an 'Okho'-Off if you want!! I am fully prepared.

[Klaze]

Thanks snyprrr and alien.

If it's allowed I gotta say the Carneiro looks quite appealing since then I don't have to buy 2 separate discs for Rebonds and Psappha with a lot of filler by other composers. Though it has a short running time...

Or is that unacceptable? 

I also see a Saphir disc with Psappha and Persephassa (a certain Ciampolini on percussion), any good?  Getting Persephassa otherwise seems tricky without going for the Mode 3CD?

[JCBuckley]

I think the Schick performance of Rebonds is terrific, as is the Mode set as a whole. Emphatically not 'strictly for fanboiz'. And 'terminally slowww'?? - the timing is around 30 seconds slower than Leoson, that's all. And around three minutes quicker than some others.

[snyprrr]

Thanks snyprrr and alien.

If it's allowed I gotta say the Carneiro looks quite appealing since then I don't have to buy 2 separate discs for Rebonds and Psappha with a lot of filler by other composers. Though it has a short running time...

Or is that unacceptable? 

I also see a Saphir disc with Psappha and Persephassa (a certain Ciampolini on percussion), any good?  Getting Persephassa otherwise seems tricky without going for the Mode 3CD?

Please just listen to Leoson (Rebonds) or Mortenson and Hauke (Psappha). Carniero should be "acceptable", though, I heave saying that.

I "think" that any recording of 'Persephassa' should be ok at this point. Most, if not all, of the new recordings use overdubbing, but that isn't a big deal. Same with 'Pleiades'- but NOT the HarmoniaMUndi.

Haven't seen the Campy----- yet.

I think the Schick performance of Rebonds is terrific, as is the Mode set as a whole. Emphatically not 'strictly for fanboiz'. And 'terminally slowww'?? - the timing is around 30 seconds slower than Leoson, that's all. And around three minutes quicker than some others.

Have you heard Schick's two previous recordings of 'Rebonds'? I will listen to the Mode again today, but, as I recall, I totally balked the first time I heard it. I do like his other two. 'Psappha', however, at 14mins., you muuust admit that it pales in comparison with Hauke's simply breathtaking 10:20. And, Hauke's "sounds" at the end are simply the best I've ever heard; Schick's instrument just sounds wimpy (the thing they say is that the European players prefer bigger instruments, the Americans, smaller- I have seen Schick's setup, and he does like to use small, dinky plates and such for this piece, making it more of a "suitcase" piece (same with his 'Rebonds').

Can I recruit no one to the Leoson side??


And, I still want to have an OKHO-OFF!!!!

[snyprrr]

^^ Well that's now over and I'm back to my usual fanboyisms.

I'm gonna do another marathon of every Xenakis work/piece that I have access to, sometime soon. I got absorbed right into the Xenakis world which occupies 90% of my brain last night, hearing my recently received Xenakis double CD.
I really got a kick out of ST/498, Polytope De Montreal and Nomos Gamma last night.

The 70s/80s works are definitely my favourite from his catalogue, for multiple reasons but those 50s and 60s works are quite something special. Early Xenakis was one of the first things I absolutely fell in love with in classical music, the really intense industrial style is like an aesthetic home to me. So much going on in those works 

Regarding earlier in the thread, the solo percussion works are my least listened to from his catalogue, lol
Though Persephassa (percussion ensemble) is a favourite and I love looking at the score.
Some of the rhythms in Pleiades really got to my head when I was first becoming a Xenakian but I don't often have the urge to put Rebounds on, you know 

So, you got the RZ Editions 2CD... and what other one?? 'Nomos Gamma' and 'Terretekhtorh' stand alone... they are quite kewl... I do like that transition between this phase and the next one. I've noticed that 1972 is the year of transition, by 1973 we are fully on to the new phase (1973-1986? 88?).

Be nice if Warner Bros. released the Erato 'Cendrees', 'Nekuia', and 'Ais' (all LPs)........

Every Tuesday (New Release day) I check thee olde Xenakis Amazon for any news... NONE.... NEVER










OH, BTW- I did just see a new piano disc, with IX and Boulez.... it's on the Amazon.... but, it has like a 10minute 'Herma', and yet another 9:30 'Evryali', which is one of the fastest- I have Philip Howard doing a super crackin' 'Evryali', and, is it Mark Richards or something? (one of the harpsichordists on the Mode percussion set) has an absolutely awesome one on YT. This new one, the samples sound very good... 10 minute 'Herma' sounds interesting...

Did you get the CD with the "mechanical" reproductions of the piano and harpsichord works, on computer, so they can be played as they were meant? NEOS or AEON


How bout that 'Paille in the Wind', such a great 3mins.





OOOOHHHH, what really irks me is that Vandenburg disc 'Xenakis in New York', absolutely the worst recording I've every heard, and the only place one can get 'Kai' and 'Kullienn'. ahhhh,.....

Seriously folks, it shouldn't be that hard to get that Mode Cycle crankin again, should it. ALIEN- why don't you call Brian at Mode and have a chat?



Now look, you've got me ranting!!!

[Mandryka]

Be nice if Warner Bros. released the Erato 'Cendrees', 'Nekuia', and 'Ais' (all LPs)........

This is on YouTube

How bout that 'Paille in the Wind', such a great 3mins.

6 minutes, but yes. Great. Why the strange title? Paille is French for straw.

My big big Xenakis revelation recently was Roger Woodward's Kraanerg. I don't care how many other performances you've heard, this is the one you need.

[snyprrr]

My big big Xenakis revelation recently was Roger Woodward's Kraanerg. I don't care how many other performances you've heard, this is the one you need.

Please explain. I've had it forever and find the recording just a tad opaque, no? I mean, I guess it's ok when you turn it up REAL LOUD- it's one of "those" types of recordings- but, can you point to anything in particular? And... it sure is hard to analyze one 70min. Track, ugh...

But, please, what is it? (I think you DID crack 'er up, lol!!)

[Mandryka]

Please explain. I've had it forever and find the recording just a tad opaque, no? I mean, I guess it's ok when you turn it up REAL LOUD- it's one of "those" types of recordings- but, can you point to anything in particular? And... it sure is hard to analyze one 70min. Track, ugh...

But, please, what is it? (I think you DID crack 'er up, lol!!)

I think the sound is absolutely beautiful. The soft melting haziness creates a haunting and almost introspective ambiance which reveals deeper qualities in the music, and fits Xenakis's intentions.  We all know (now that I've dig up the quotes)  that Xenakis had a "spiritual" agenda (see my posts above), and hence wasn't really about creating sonic thrills.

By comparison the other recordings (DJ Spooky for example) sound brash and jejune, as if the music is really about offering the listener a sonic thrill. Well it's not.

[snyprrr]

I think the sound is absolutely beautiful. The soft melting haziness creates a haunting and almost introspective ambiance which reveals deeper qualities in the music, and fits Xenakis's intentions.  We all know (now that I've dig up the quotes)  that Xenakis had a "spiritual" agenda (see my posts above), and hence wasn't really about creating sonic thrills.

By comparison the other recordings (DJ Spooky for example) sound brash and jejune, as if the music is really about offering the listener a sonic thrill. Well it's not.

But, then, are you playing very loud, which I found did bring out qualities in the recording, or are you listening at the lower-normal volume. I maintain the recording needs to be listened to at full volume, because of the nature of the mic placement, blah blah,...

I can see if you like the "mixing" how this one does have a different sonic architecture than, say, the Mode version, which is nicely crisp and delineated (do you have that one?). I'll give it a spin.

[Mandryka]

But, then, are you playing very loud, which I found did bring out qualities in the recording, or are you listening at the lower-normal volume. I maintain the recording needs to be listened to at full volume, because of the nature of the mic placement, blah blah,...

I honestly don't think that it makes much difference. But I'm deaf.

[snyprrr]

The other CD was Modes "Music For Strings", but I've heard all those pieces on other recordings.

With the RZ, it was amazing to finally hear Nomos Gamma (which is a kickass piece) which I've read about in several Xenakis books. I've got everything else on that double CD elsewhere (like ST48 and Achorripsis on timpani etc.), but the recording is crisp 

Do you mean this vinyl transferred to CD?

I have the vinyl, classic recording. There are better recordings of Ais, but it's worth it for Nekuia.

I've heard some of the computerized interpretations on YouTube, they're rendered well. Actually, unless you've got a very specific kind of ear, you wouldn't even be able to tell 

Paille in the Wind is a beautiful little piece, I've got the score too (lol, only two pages  )

Yes, I've come across this before but I don't have it:



I don't own it, so I'll take your warning 

lol

I'm going to write you a piece, it's called:

PHANBOI


lol- what's the instrumentation? wood blocks and triangle??

[snyprrr]

Never heard of this Xenakis dude before but he sounds good 

Due to space, I might have to start including other Composers in my "Xenakis Box of CDs". Here's my candidates so far:

Igor

Varese

Malec

(Scelsi) not really, but it's just one Box...

Dusapin

Erb (lots of brass, EV inspired)

Spectral stuff... again, now we're stretching it...


anyone else?

[nathanb]

Josh, do you own any of the DVD releases from Mode? One of my Christmas presents was the one with Linaia-Agon.

[snyprrr]

Maybe or you could just buy more Xenakis? 

Like WHAT??

Seriously... I'm not gonna get the Timpani Piano Music... not gonna get any piano or percussion one-offs... nothing new of note anyhow... the only thing even remotely interesting would be the computer generated piano/harpsichord on NEOS, but my money just doesn't care to be spent in that direction...

nope... I'm just going to say I have ALL Xenakis and there is no Xenakis I have not...

At some point, I got rid of that Neuma disc which has that IX tape piece... oo, can't remember... late '70s, real short, sounds like static scrunch,... named after a space thingy... Alpha??...

anyhow, I just can't stand the piece... no, I'm not gonna do it (GHW Bush)...


I mean, you got something interesting I've never heard of?....



NO!!

Because there isn't anything... I'm sad about that stalled Mode "Complete" Cycle... was so looking for 'String Solos Duos and Trio' or something...





there, there






Weren't you in the middle of listening in chronological?...or was thsat jessup?

Snyprrr, what's your favorite of his chamber works? (not that I haven't already heard them all    )

It might make an interesting thread in itself too? 

Smaller than 13? (eliminates Jalons, Thalleinn, etc...)

'Akea' or 'Tetora' or 'Tetras'


though, I consider the whole unbroken string of chamber works 1975-1986 to be one thing...

Josh, do you own any of the DVD releases from Mode? One of my Christmas presents was the one with Linaia-Agon.

how is that? details pleeease

[snyprrr]

Yeah, I getcha Snyprrr pal. I also have (one way or another) almost all Xenakis I can get 


Perhaps some Manoury, (James) Harley and some (Ben) Johnston? (to name some I do see mentioned a lot)

Any Varese or Scelsi is good and if you feel a home-run on Sirius, go for some good 'ole Karlheinz (even though he's completely different from Iannis)

Yea,... either way, the "Xenakis Club" of Composers IS pretty small...


I'm not to fond of the Arditti disc by the "Spanish Xenakis" F.Guerrero,... it's just pretty aggressive and grainy grinding without the fun aspect of IX... or the Xenakisms I hear in other Spanish interpreters, such as Rueda or Posadas (Both string quartets on KAIROS)...

IX has his grating stuff too... lol...

When I lived near the conservatory, I snuck into their library one day and lo and behold, they had a bunch of IX I'd never heard... LPs, Cendrees....and such... including the disc with BOHOR...

Well, I was excited by what I had heard so far, and then 'Bohor' comes on, and, lol, you could have taped my reaction over the next 15mins.!!! At some point I was like, I've HAD it!! (I was on headphones in the library),... and then it kept on going and going and going...

oy vey!!


And I just can't staaaaaaaaand the loopy later electronic works- S.706, GENDY3, Taurphifonie,- I mean, just to listen to...

oh lol- and, do you have POUR LE PAX ??  I knew I was gonna hate it, and still got it...that's IX dedication thar


But, we all know that many of IX's electronic works are ... ahhh..... difficult...



The one I can have the most fun with is the VOYAGE TO ANDROMEDA thingy...



BUUUUT-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Occident-Orient' and 'Concret PH' are so evocative, especially the former. And 'Persepolis' is one of a kind (unless you know of anything as long and meditative)... 'Cluny' is groovy...


'The Legend of Eer' .... I dunno... I'd rather make a sepa

[snyprrr]

Le Legende d'Eer (1977)

I prefer the circular programme of 'Persepolis' over the linear one presented here,... and, it's too short...


I want to like 'Eer'... I just have no particular feelings about it... I've bought it twice, the second time out of a CDCDCD outbreak of 'Completist's Mania'...


ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........

and you?

[nathanb]

Not yet, but I haven't been much of a collector of classical DVDs in the past. Is it any good? 

Honestly, I usually only collect DVDs when I can't obtain the same music in pure audio (Some examples in my library: Chin's Alice In Wonderland, Birtwistle's The Minotaur, Fuentes' Grace Note, etc...). I even rip the audio right off the DVD the day I open it. That said, both video and audio are pretty neat