Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)

[snyprrr]

I haven't heard Francisco Guerrero Marín before but checking him out now, you're right 

Xenakis is definitely 50% fun and 50% emotionally compelling (depending on the mood of the piece)

Bohor's amazing, one of his best electronic works (alongside Persepolis, Orient-occident and la legende d'eer).


I'm surprised you share the same opinion about S.709, Gendy3 and Mycenae Alpha, I simply do not like those three pieces at all. After he had already created masterpieces like Orient-occident and Bohor, I don't understand why he would be inclined to think that making those pieces where a good idea  (besides the whole UPIC thing), they're my least favorite of his entire output. And I say that as a passionate Xenakis-fanboy.


With La Legende D'eer, I don't like the opening but around 5/6 minutes when the pitch-range starts opening it gets better and better for me, after a while it really creates a mesmerizing world for me and then turns into one of my favorite electronic works 

But I tend to have a strong dislike of super-high frequencies, regardless of who or what made it.

OK OK, 'Bohor' is... "amazing", lol,... yes to everything else and mostly your very last sentence, yesyesyes

I think the UPIC things... the "colors" of those pieces are the colors of the most ultra modern sounding music I think IX could imagine- I wonder what they would sound like in a scifi or horror? They're like what robots would like, and so, I treat them all like 1977/BBC1984... but I just can't "enjoy" them ..yea,... very BladeRunner oppressive,-

I never liked the oppressive musics, like the 'Hard Minimalism' of the Dutch, or the "look how annoying I can be" solo balloon or whatever (solo balloon is what that IX sounds like, haha),... some things are actually dated, huh!!



anyhow...


Really would like to hear a whole recital of IX Brass Works, or works for trumpet...

oh, this thread,... it just makes me whine for new releases of substance


(I think I'm far away from any Xenakisathon here though)

[snyprrr]

Okho beats Rebounds, no competition there. Rebounds does have a cool groove around 1/2 minutes in but not half as interesting.

Why is it that all the percussionists flock to Xenakis? Rhythm is a highly important part of what Xenakis' music is but Rebounds and Psappha are kinda boring compared to the rest of his work, of which also includes percussion instruments with solo-spots? Is it just me??? 

'Bohor'... yeeea,... haven't listened to it in a long time... but, I mean, it's pretty, uh, "monothematic"... maybe it's the bells, it's just to "hard" for my ears?...

I like any one of those percussion pieces if they're played by the right person. Again, my choices are: Rebonds/Leoson (Caprice) and Psappha/Mortenson(BIS) or Hauke (NCA). These are the only ones I really recommend anymore, though I do like Sadlo's take on both even though they're both quite slow. The performer's choice of instruments is sometimes the culprit, resulting in a dinky sounding finale in both pieces.

'Okho' I'm still waiting to hear the perfect rendition- the one by the Demoe on Stradivarius is the only one where the seating seems to be far enough away from each other to really emphasize the separation...

I DID propose an OKHO-OFF... what say?... there's about eight versions at the moment...

[nathanb]

I wish we had a chatbox. I'm too busy/lazy to keep up with anything but then I finally take a day off for my own damn health and I wanna talk avant-garde with some peeps.

[snyprrr]

I wish we had a chatbox. I'm too busy/lazy to keep up with anything but then I finally take a day off for my own damn health and I wanna talk avant-garde with some peeps.

dude, we're ALL trying to get a date, LOL!! Even Hitler had a girlfriend...

we have bloops and bleeps

wtf??



I took the 'Turangalila' to work today...

[Karl Henning]

I took the 'Turangalila' to work today...

Do not fear the ecstasy.

[nathanb]

dude, we're ALL trying to get a date, LOL!! Even Hitler had a girlfriend...

we have bloops and bleeps

wtf??



I took the 'Turangalila' to work today...

are you on drugs right now too

[snyprrr]

are you on drugs right now too

Love Is the Drug


wait... what?... a Roxy Music ref in a Xenakis Thread??





Now I have surely sullied the Thread beyond repair

I wish we had a chatbox. I'm too busy/lazy to keep up with anything but then I finally take a day off for my own damn health and I wanna talk avant-garde with some peeps.

I checked Xenakis New Releases for you

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Which Xenakis string quartet should I introduce to my friends first? I'm thinking Tetora, but what do you think?

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

What are they already into?

If they're into hypo-serialism then put ST4 on, if they want something more rhythmically energetic and dynamic put Tetras on, if they want something incredibly beautiful and transcendent then you've got Tetora or Ergma 

Yeah I am thinking Tetora because it is the one I like the most out of them for its sense of spacious beauty, and generally I think that is something they quite like as well.

[snyprrr]

I wish we had a chatbox. I'm too busy/lazy to keep up with anything but then I finally take a day off for my own damn health and I wanna talk avant-garde with some peeps.

Tracees

Actually, I like 'Kekrops' better only because it's longer. That thing treads like a giant dinosaur predator! I remember there were no IX Orchestral Works coming out for a long time after 'DOX-ORKH' on BIS, which I haaated at the time, since, it really did seem to herald a step back for IX. I wanted more of what had just happened in the 80s, and now this monolithic style was going on... whaaa???

So then, that DG 'Wein Modern 2' came out, with 'Kekrops', and I hastened to put it on, fingers shaking, disc flying... there... push play,... click, click... and then...

BRRRRAAAAAAAANNNNNGGGGG      BRRRRRRRAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGGG BRRRRAANNNNGGGGGG


OH YESS!!!!

Then the 'Jaws' strings come in and I go crazy,... and then... and then... that piano.... ahhhhh.....

BadAss Musicke Mein Cherren

[snyprrr]

Do you own any Xenakis score Snyprrr? 

No, but I remember looking through a book once and seeing what I thought was the score for 'Mikka'. All I saw was pictures of curves, like the "curves" the violin has to go through (glisses). I dunno, is it a graphic score? Either way, very cool to look at, but it waaas a picture of him looking at these things, so it was a pic of a pic of a pic....

Did I see what I thought I saw?

[Mandryka]

incredibly beautiful and transcendent then you've got . . . Ergma 

When I first saw that I thought you'd completely lost it, because neither beautiful nor transcendent were ideas I'd associate with Ergma. However I've begun to listen to the Danel Quartet playing it rather than Jack, and slowly I'm starting to see where you're coming from, even though I think you're overstating it. Thanks for posting this.

[snyprrr]

Im so je;lly... how do IIII get gifs on here??? Maybe it's NOT a good idea??LOL

[snyprrr]

When I first saw that I thought you'd completely lost it, because neither beautiful nor transcendent were ideas I'd associate with Ergma. However I've begun to listen to the Danel Quartet playing it rather than Jack, and slowly I'm starting to see where you're coming from, even though I think you're overstating it. Thanks for posting this.

Absolutely honest and I'm not overstating it. But I also don't think enough recordings of those two works are graceful enough in their articulations and dynamics. As an analogy, they should be treating them more like Feldman...than Bartok fff dynamic allegros 

Ergma

Mondriaan SQ (Vanguard)
JACK SQ (Mode)
Danel SQ (Stradivarius)

Gotta say, I thought the Danel sounded like they were having the most difficulty with the piece. I don't know how Mandryka hears it, but I intonation "humanity" in practically every utterance- when they do play "together", one hears the "mistakes" even more. I'd almost like to hear a Romantic treatment with full vibratos, lol!!

The Mondriaan have the debut, I think it's from 1996. Their's is as raw and wooly as the Danel, but I think they hit the diamonds a little better. I tend to prefer this one over JACK, but, the two sound quite different in terms of trimming.

The JACK have the smoothest rendition, along with having a silky recording, which the other two don't. I always thought the presentation hear took away from the violence, not that the JACK play reticently.

Still, yes, they all show signs of humanity when this piece in particular demands absolute mechanism. I'd rather hear it played by robots for now until the species develops beyond daily neurosis.- meaning, how can PEOPLE, who sleep, eat, and shit, play music that demands to be absolutely human-free?

Hey, they made a computer-rendition CD of the keyboard works...


Why don't one of youse guys punch 'Ergma' into your Sibelius and lets see what it sounds like with NO vibrato!!

[snyprrr]

Aside from everything else which I agree, yes I might put Ergma into my computer one of these days....when I'm not busy 

I still don't think the two latter quartets have been fully interpreted accurately yet. They are both entirely beautiful and have that flow of spiritual life etc. like Feldman, Scelsi, Webern and Takemitsu too!

The problem is, when unacquainted people think Xenakis and they think it is all FFF Allegro wall of dissonance, chaos and gut-wrenching rhythms but infact,  he's very diverse and his works should be performed as such. His heavier and more colossal works should be fully engaging and overwhelming in their recordings, but that is one side of him.

ST4 - Should be an aggressive (but ever changing in timbre) cloud which changes in scope and emotional dynamic quite a bit.

Tetras - Let the FFF's be striking but let the clusters ring, etc.

Tetora - Let it feel and express a similar angelic and otherworldly vibe of Feldman, Messiaen, Scelsi, Takemitsu. The most contrapuntal parts should be dynamic-engaging but otherwise

Ergma - Similar in many ways to Tetora but with more fixation on the floating feeling he's conveying (much like Tetora)


That's as simple that I can get 

So what ARE 'Ergma''s dynamics? I mean, yea, I'd like to hear it done with more finesse. I think both recordings of 'Tetora', especially the JACK, revel in an "endless sand dune" sound, very smooth. No one has played 'Ergma' slow enough to really let a more relaxed feeling to emerge. They're all around the same duration- whether right or wrong, many having streeeeetched some of his pieces. You can get a 'Psappha' at 10mins., and one at 16mins.

[Klaze]

Ok, here's something that pisses me off every once in a while:

WHY is Metastasis quoted all the time as such a "notable" Xenakis piece (and 20th century piece)??   Why?? It's a good piece yes and it was innovative at the time (hence Varese's comment on it), that being said it doesn't come close, not even by a lightyear to the real highlights of his output and it absolutely does NOT represent him as a composer at all. It's lumped in with all those "textural" pieces like Ligeti's Atmospheres and Penderecki's Threnody for some bizarre reason. What the fuck???   


Sorry for the ramble but it puzzles me 

Thanks for this string of posts, I only recently started exploring Xenakis but I kept wondering why people (liner notes writers mostly) kept making such a big deal about this piece, because I view it in a similar light as you do.

[snyprrr]

I also have to get off my chest how frustrating it is that Xenakis is seen as the "architectural composer".

Fine, he explored shapes and spaces in his early works, which where radical: yes

But those are only 20 works, out of his 160 (approx) piece catalogue.

Most of his music is not "textural", which is a vague term in itself.
His mature style, which goes from around 1964 to Omega, are still firmly routed in tradition. That being Greek culture/mythology, Bartok, Stravinsky, Varese, Messiaen, Bach counterpoint, among others.

I can't be the only one..... 

or am I just extremely observant? 

Xenakis was like the Trump of music.











Just seeing if you recovered from that, lol! I mean, eeeveryone hated on him, so, really, when it comes to IX, I simply CAN'T hear a word the naysayers say. Couldn't care less what KHS, Boulez, Nono, or anyone said, or what not. I think IX is the one who's mostly right, so, they can just go bla bla...nanny nanny boo boo is what I have to say to the critics!!

By the way- 'Metastaseis' IS a wild structure. I mean, even so, the opening itself is unheralded. I know, I started taking it for granted, but that Tamayo rendition was the greatest thing I'd heard since sliced cheese gravy!! Let them have 'Metastaseis'


I'm too busy hearing IX and Feldman in Igor right now... got myself into an Igorabora...

[snyprrr]

I was in the steam room of this tropical resort, then this security woman walked in and said:

"May I have your attention please? Will the real Iannis please stand up?" Then I thought to myself, we're going to have a problem here.

I was only sketching some sieve based patterns that would evolve into this really contrapuntal part followed by a big hetrophony part, then I thought I had become Iannis. There was this other dude that thought he was too, then I was all confused. But then this other guy was like "I'm Metastasis" and we all like cracked up and all. Then the percussion thing and we where all Okhoing off at this security woman, but I am the real Iannis, I have the credentials to prove it.

Then we pulled out this:



And they where like: "Holy shit, what is that dog?" and then M̶o̶z̶a̶r̶t̶  the guy with the curly wig told me it wasn't music, but all the other boyz had enough of that and we put him in the trash can and threw it on the roof. Then this monotone american dude was just saying to me repeatedly for about 20 minutes "The roof the roof the roof is on fire!!!!" and I was like "Fuck this shit, I'll make MY OWN piano concertos.

But I forgot what happened after that

You know those double-bass "yearnings" at the beginning of SEA-CHANGE come straight from 'Requiem Canticles''s introduction? Also somewhere else in earlier Igor (either Firebird or Chant du Ross.)...

So much Igor in IX...

[snyprrr]

Snyprrr, when was the last time you listened to Anastenaria? 

A while... I'll have to revisit since I've been on this Stravinsky kick. Bornstein's 'Metastaseis' is pretty good, too, which is a plus (I still hold to the Tamayo as a revelation). Still hearing lots is IS in IX.

[nathanb]

Gahhhh Xenakis