Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)

[bhodges]

I listened to a Xenakis CDs a few days ago during my graceful return back to music (after literally giving up on listening to music for near a month) and while I enjoyed them, I still don't have the enthusiasm I once has for Xenakis back.

It would seem ridiculous to those with fragile ears but Xenakis' music just isn't extreme enough for me (anymore).


I need really extreme emotional intensity, still finding it hard to discover. Some of Jani Christou's (I know you know him Snyprrr) music fits the bill but due to the theatricism of his mature style, it only exists in moments of much more gradually anticipated works.

Penderecki's Threnody sounds soothing, except for when it's blasting at 85 dBA. You know what I mean?

If Xenakis isn't extreme enough, and Penderecki's Threnody sounds "soothing," perhaps time for some high contrast. I recommend Puccini.



--Bruce

[ritter]

If Xenakis isn't extreme enough, and Penderecki's Threnody sounds "soothing," perhaps time for some high contrast. I recommend Puccini.



--Bruce

Yep..the problem with "extreme" as an attribute of music is that it can always be superseded by the next piece of music you encounter, and then the previous piece seems bland. Thus, a tactical retreat to winter quarters may be wise. Not necessarily Puccini...a Mozart Piano sonata will have the necessary cleansing effect.

IMHO, "extreme" actually is not an attribute of music...

[milk]

If Xenakis isn't extreme enough, and Penderecki's Threnody sounds "soothing," perhaps time for some high contrast. I recommend Puccini.



--Bruce

[amw]

If Xenakis isn't extreme enough, and Penderecki's Threnody sounds "soothing," perhaps time for some high contrast. I recommend Puccini.



--Bruce

Or just go further >.>

https://www.youtube.com/v/PfAkokIAA34

https://www.youtube.com/v/zHS0XtFxO3o

https://www.youtube.com/v/rRFLsNcHY5g

I think "extreme" and "bland" are not attributes of music but rather reactions to it though. If someone is finding contemporary music "bland", what I'd probably recommend is actually going back to very early music, like medieval or earlier—a time period totally divorced from contemporary thought and artistic belief. That would probably have the necessary freshness.

[Mandryka]

I listened to a Xenakis CDs a few days ago during my graceful return back to music (after literally giving up on listening to music for near a month) and while I enjoyed them, I still don't have the enthusiasm I once has for Xenakis back.

It would seem ridiculous to those with fragile ears but Xenakis' music just isn't extreme enough for me (anymore).


I need really extreme emotional intensity, still finding it hard to discover. Some of Jani Christou's (I know you know him Snyprrr) music fits the bill but due to the theatricism of his mature style, it only exists in moments of much more gradually anticipated works.

Penderecki's Threnody sounds soothing, except for when it's blasting at 85 dBA. You know what I mean?

Jani Christou . . . .  have you heard Nono's Prometeo? Or Hespos's Kaps?

[snyprrr]

Jani Christou . . . .  have you heard Nono's Prometeo? Or Hespos's Kaps?
[/quote n
Hespos is a good one for "extreme"...


yea, this "extreme" thing I know well, and, yes, one MUST RETREAT back to the "normals" or one will never ever that important aspect of the extreme: that normal stuff seeeems extreme in the face of extreme stuff...

huh?

Currently, I'm finding Poulenc extreme, so, there ya go!!!




Perhaps that Poster who found IX normal this time around should listen to 'N'Shima'... oy vey, that's as extreme as I ever would want to stomach... mostly, ANY vocal shenanigans I find beyond the bounds of extremity...

things can be extremely bad, extremely stupid, extremely boring, extremely annoying, extreme for the sake of hurting or violence...


music caaan be usedasa weapon, just ask Waco...

[snyprrr]

Metastaseis A (World Premiere)
Terretekhtorh
Nomos Gamma


Mode Records Xenakis Edition


Well, I don't know how thrilled, or disappointed, you might be, but here it is, the first MAJOR Xenakis release since... the last Mode release 2 or 3 years ago. Oy vey, we are of heaving hearts here! So, when I first saw it on the Amazon ticker, and couldn't see the programme, I was SURE that here we would have the few remaining IX works that hadn't seen the light of day; but, no, we have brand new digital recordings of, arguably, two of IX's most... uncompromising yet communicative works. That would be great if the fill-upwere 'Koiroanoi'(?) or 'Mosaiques' or a few other works that we are all itching to hear; instead, we have what is the ORIGINAL "version" of 'Metastaseis' , and, I'm sorry, I sunk back down in my chair.

Of course I haven't heard it yet, and it's got a cool cover, but, I feel like I'm not concerned with what "they're" concerned with- the people with the monies to do this kind of thing. Maybe this album is aimed at the IX neophyte, maybe it's a marketing decision, I dunno...

Either way, I gueeess we have to celebrate

[snyprrr]

Is it just me or does it feel out of place when you hear a idiophone in a IX work? (besides Pleiades)

Idiophone I associate too much with Messiaen, Boulez, Messiaen, Zappa, Boulez and Zappa 



edit: I wrote mallet cause my brain was distracted lol

I'm expecting a reply to the previous post!!!!!!! tap tap tap tap

[snyprrr]

Metastaseis A (World Premiere)
Terretekhtorh
Nomos Gamma


Mode Records Xenakis Edition


Well, I don't know how thrilled, or disappointed, you might be, but here it is, the first MAJOR Xenakis release since... the last Mode release 2 or 3 years ago. Oy vey, we are of heaving hearts here! So, when I first saw it on the Amazon ticker, and couldn't see the programme, I was SURE that here we would have the few remaining IX works that hadn't seen the light of day; but, no, we have brand new digital recordings of, arguably, two of IX's most... uncompromising yet communicative works. That would be great if the fill-upwere 'Koiroanoi'(?) or 'Mosaiques' or a few other works that we are all itching to hear; instead, we have what is the ORIGINAL "version" of 'Metastaseis' , and, I'm sorry, I sunk back down in my chair.

Of course I haven't heard it yet, and it's got a cool cover, but, I feel like I'm not concerned with what "they're" concerned with- the people with the monies to do this kind of thing. Maybe this album is aimed at the IX neophyte, maybe it's a marketing decision, I dunno...

Either way, I gueeess we have to celebrate

[You did it]

I got the score for Naama today, aside from being a really impressive work, it's the closest he got to being able to replicate the force of the orchestra in a solo piece. This piece is intensely rhythmic and layered with cluster chords pretty much throughout the whole thing. A very cool melodic section in the middle to (with mini inverted harmonies too!) 

[snyprrr]

First thought is:

Yay a new Xenakis release!!!! 

Second thought is:


FUCK YOU MODE FOR NOT RECORDING THE UN-RECORDED STUFF, THIS RELEASE IS A BLOODY MONEYGRAB  :'

Sorry to say 

I I feel ya.Didn't see you celebrating/lamenting the new release.

But, ya can't yell at producer Brian Brandt for giving his all, it seems. But yea, us 10 would like to hear the stuff, maaaan.


Am interested in hearing the spacial pieces in modern recs. tho.

[You did it]

Am interested in hearing the spacial pieces in modern recs. tho.

Would be interesting, given how spacial sound has kept evolving since the early 2000s.

Either that or.......you know.......some performances of that Xenakis stuff 


Why can't they program Oresteia instead of Messiah around Christmas time?   

[You did it]

Achorripsis has something special about it I think, particularly if you pay attention to the bass trombone, cellos/double basses and the percussion, you kind of sense a dance-like spirit, it's a fun piece. He started to formulate a totally unique sound here (not that he hadn't already, but still).

The ringing bassoon parts towards 3/4 are damn meaty! 

[snyprrr]

Cendrees
Nekuia
Anemoessa


'Nekuia' seems positively Romantic compared with the slab of High Modernism that is 'Cendrees', jazzy flute solo and all! 'Anemoessa', which has a "windy" meaning, is appropriately windy sounding, along with having classic IX sounds.


I have slowly been working my way back to Xenakis from Stravinsky, through Paris to Messiaen.

[Manwithaplan]

I have slowly been working my way back to Xenakis from Stravinsky, through Paris to Messiaen.

So I had been completely clean of classical music since October last year......then I went straight into the Xenakis 


There is just something incredibly awesome about Xenakis' work, not only is it an aesthetically behemoth-type entity that could destroy a planet in a single blow but it is simultaneously a compassionate, kind-hearted fairy   

[snyprrr]

So I had been completely clean of classical music since October last year......then I went straight into the Xenakis 


There is just something incredibly awesome about Xenakis' work, not only is it an aesthetically behemoth-type entity that could destroy a planet in a single blow but it is simultaneously a compassionate, kind-hearted fairy 

Well, the whole Debussy-Messiaen-Stravinsky-Xenakis thing has come back around, have been slowly getting into a IX frame of mind, separating the phases...

Just gotinto 'Charisma' yesterday. Not a piece that spoketo me until I heard the ColLegno vintage recording (on the famous ColLegno series release, with 'Ioolkos'). That recording presents a perfect picture for me, with great ambience, "lontano"... one can put this on infinite repeat...

Also hitting my very fav Maryvonne les Dizes Accord recording of 'Mikka-MikkaS'. Only she gets the languid quality going in perfect slow glisses with just amount of non-violin sound and ambience.

May have to go to 'Zythos' next just to keep perspective...


oy- I do feel a Xenakis explosion about to happen!!



Also looking up that old Ozawa recording of 'Strategie'...

[Manwithaplan]

I've read he was, in some sense. Nevertheless his language in the 1970s is  replete with ideas which are "spiritual." Look at this:

This sort of thing may have been sincere, it may have been public relations, it was the time of hippies, the age of Aquarius, all of that. Anyway, what I really want to say is that the communist-materialist understanding of Xenakis  prima facie doesn't fit what we know about him in the 1970s, the period of the site specific multi-media spectacles.

Have you heard of the "world polytope?"

I know exactly what you mean. His interests in Greek mythology, Homer's Odyssey, Plato, Noh music/theatre, Ritual, primitivism (raw, transgressive, uncompromising expression) and the cosmic etc, definitely shows strong spiritual subtext to what his music is getting at.
It's hard to put into words, but when you really experience it - you know (and feel) it! (regardless of your own religious or non-religious stance)
Something outside of just religion too, certain aspects of both the human experience (like 'fight or flight', in our animalistic layer of humanity) to mystical experiences (regardless of the origin, even drug trips are valid), to pain, suffering, joy, ecstasy.
Whether it's apparent on the surface to the average classical listener who happens to click on a Xenakis video or not, these things are inherently the foundation of Xenakis' mature musical language and expression.
The early period (not pre-Metastasis) is more preoccupied with architecture and post-Futuristic/Scientific ventures, which is where many listeners get completely lost (or put off) with Xenakis. Graphs, maps, diagrams and the sort are fixations in this period, as it is part of the journey from the naive innovator to the relentless genius.
The aesthetics of Xenakis' music (and a lot of other milestone composers like Stockhausen, who is fixated with space, God, meditation and other things), I generally don't think are things that many of the anti-Xenakis people are either interested in or are acquainted with.
The spiritualism and mysticism is definitely there, even though Xenakis himself claimed he was an atheist.
It does, however hint at the immense power that many of the ancient myths have and the truths about humanity the preserve. Confronting? Depends on the individual. Xenakis' music has an incredibly strong emotional impact on me but I can easily listen to his work on a casual basis (lol, like at the supermarket  )

Yeah, there is my informed observation on what you hinted at (a while ago)

[Mandryka]

https://karlrecords.bandcamp.com/album/persepolis

Lovely sounding new mixing of Persepolis here.

Comparing it with the one from the 1970s made me keen to see Xenakis's mixing instructions, if indeed he left any - does anyone have it?

[bhodges]

https://karlrecords.bandcamp.com/album/persepolis

Lovely sounding new mixing of Persepolis here.

Comparing it with the one from the 1970s made me keen to see Xenakis's mixing instructions, if indeed he left any - does anyone have it?

Can't help with the instructions, but thanks a lot for posting the recording! Looks very tasty.

--Bruce

[Mandryka]

Can't help with the instructions, but thanks a lot for posting the recording! Looks very tasty.

--Bruce

The new Legende d'eer on the same label is also worth exploring I think.