Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)

[ibanezmonster]

What I understood from people who knew Xenakis, from the middle of the 80's until he stopped composing in 1997, he was pretty much depressed and disillusioned. Hence the harsh style of these works and their lack of "seduction" that his music from the 70's had.

I heard the same about Schnittke. Which is interesting, because Schnittke ended up attaining a similar style in the sense of slow moving dissonances with very little sensual appeal and very straightforward, except more sparse.

I also remember an interview from 95 or 96 where he said that all he wanted to do now was watch cartoons on TV.

Hahaha! This is too funny. 

Is it this interview?
http://www.youtube.com/v/j4nj2nklbts

I haven't watched it yet, but I'm really curious about which would be the cartoons he's interested in. Probably typical Saturday morning cartoons (Bugs Bunny, Batman), but if it was Neon Genesis Evangelion that he watched, that would explain a lot.  That show came out in 1995, and yeah... watching it can put you in a mindset of psychological breakdown and despair.

Probably he was just so knowledgeable at the point about Greek mythology that he wanted to move on to something else...

[CRCulver]

What I understood from people who knew Xenakis, from the middle of the 80's until he stopped composing in 1997, he was pretty much depressed and disillusioned. Hence the harsh style of these works and their lack of "seduction" that his music from the 70's had.
I also remember an interview from 95 or 96 where he said that all he wanted to do now was watch cartoons on TV.

I thought it was pretty conclusive that Xenakis suffered from dementia in his last years, and that people had noticed signs of this as early as the late 1980s, so "depressed" and "disillusioned" may be a misunderstanding of his illness and not what he was actually feeling.

[kishnevi]

I thought it was pretty conclusive that Xenakis suffered from dementia in his last years, and that people had noticed signs of this as early as the late 1980s, so "depressed" and "disillusioned" may be a misunderstanding of his illness and not what he was actually feeling.

Having had a parent with dementia--depression is really a normal facet of dementia, first when the sufferer begins to realize their mental powers are failing,  and then, as it progresses, become permanently confused by what's going on around them as they lose the power to understand and remember.   TV Cartoons presenting something easily understood, with limited vocabulary and easily predictable events, etc.  could well be something that attracts a dementia patient.

In reference to Xenakis in particular,  dementia would involve a slow, inevitable degradation in the ability to compose music, all the way to the point of being unable to do more than to say "oh, that's a pretty song".  In fact, the earliest stages, which generally occur well before anyone realized dementia is involved,  could account for any changes in Xenakis's style in his later compositions.

[not edward]

I thought it was pretty conclusive that Xenakis suffered from dementia in his last years, and that people had noticed signs of this as early as the late 1980s, so "depressed" and "disillusioned" may be a misunderstanding of his illness and not what he was actually feeling.

I'm not sure exactly when he exactly was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but it was before his last works were finished (James Harley, who did a through survey of Xenakis' work, only mentions it being in the 1990s).

[petrarch]

Is it this interview?
http://www.youtube.com/v/j4nj2nklbts

Doesn't look like it is; an interesting aspect of that one is that one of the interviewers is eminent german "chaotician"/"fractalist" Heinz-Otto Peitgen (that sure throws me back to the early 90s!).

You should search for the interview with Harry Halbreich in the La Légende d'Eer DVD on Mode Records. Very sad to see him losing his train of thought in the middle of sentences...

[Mr Bloom]

I thought it was pretty conclusive that Xenakis suffered from dementia in his last years, and that people had noticed signs of this as early as the late 1980s, so "depressed" and "disillusioned" may be a misunderstanding of his illness and not what he was actually feeling.

I agree with Jeffrey Smith on this question : I think it was both a sign and a consequence of his growing sickness. His sickness began in 1987 and he stopped to work on music in 1997.

Although his wife Francoise Xenakis wrote a heartbreaking book about the last years of his husband (Regarde, nos chemins se sont fermés), I'm not really willing to discuss the details of this kind of matters. It's really suppositions and I think it should stay as such.

[kishnevi]

I agree with Jeffrey Smith on this question : I think it was both a sign and a consequence of his growing sickness. His sickness began in 1987 and he stopped to work on music in 1997.

Although his wife Francoise Xenakis wrote a heartbreaking book about the last years of his husband (Regarde, nos chemins se sont fermés), I'm not really willing to discuss the details of this kind of matters. It's really suppositions and I think it should stay as such.

I more or less agree, but it is highly relevant when discussing the music he composed at the end of his life.  Bear in mind that the effects of Alzheimer's start to appear, in mild form, long before anyone even thinks of the possibility.  In regard to musical composition,  it would have had effects on his musical style and the way he composed;  he would have found it increasingly difficult to compose any complex piece.

A few years ago, I read a piece regarding a noted British writer who, after her decease, was revealed to have Alzheimer's.  (Iris Murdoch, I think, but I may be remembering incorrectly.)  Someone made a study of her later novels, written when she was in what might be called the earliest stages of the disease,  and found that both the vocabulary and syntax became progressively simpler in comparison to her earlier works: her thought processes were, in essence, becoming less complex and  at the same time harder for her to express.    I think it more than a supposition to say a similar process must have been going on with Xenakis, and the differences between his last works and his earlier works may simply be due to that, and not any emotional effects of the disease.  Not having read the book you  refer to, or any other biographical material on him,  I would speculate that his decision to cease composition would have come when he found it not possible to express on paper the music he heard inside himself.

[snyprrr]

. . . is not on the Uing.

I MEANT the work 'Eridanos', not 'Emprientes'. 'Eridanos' is THE work those who somewhat dislaike Xenakis should try,... James.

Eridanos

[snyprrr]

Jalons (1986)

This is the sole Xenakis work conducted by Boulez (Erato/Apex), and it is THICK! Unlike the somewhat more linear 'Thallein', 'Jalons' seems to take a little more time getting used to, but it has all the hallmarks, and sports a few harp solos which lend the piece distinction. For those who want to dive into the deep end cold, try "Jalons'. I'd say it's a companion piece to the similar 'harpsichord concerto' 'L'Isle de Goree', having a similar 'sad' (falling semi-tone) moment in the middle. The recording delivers all the instruments well, especially the burbling low brass notes and the piccolo, making for a 'hot live' feel.

[snyprrr]

Jesus showed me he loved me by leading me to xenakis.musicportal.gr where, for the first time ever!, I finally heard samples of 99% of the works I've been clammering to hear! Thank You!

So, just to go through:

Sea-Change This is his last Orchestral Work, and I've been fantasizing what it must sound like, and I was slightly right, but Xenakis really DOES seem to signal 'sea change' because the work is very cleaned up and diaphonous(?)- it's got an expectant atmosphere- and Xenakian melody- that was quite refreshing for his penultimate work. Really sad Tamayo didn't record it. Can't wait to hear the whole thing.

Koianoi This was the other Late Orchestral Work that seemed to have eluded the microphone, but here- and this was the one I had really been whining about- here was an angrier version of 'Dammerschein' (everyone seems to like this one)- plus some of the 'Chorale of the Death of the Twilight of the Gods' brass chorale music which is always a welcome 'common' tonality in Xenakis. 'Koiranoi' has some of 'Roai' and other Late Works, but definitely seems to have its own course. Can't wait to hear this one too!

Pour les baleines(?) The classic short piece for String Orchestra is 4 minutes of Xenakian string textures- which is a wonderful thing! A great amalgam. Again, wish Tamayo would have recorded it. There are some sounds here that I may not have heard before. (and the 'whale' thing- don't worry about that!)

'The Takemitsu Piece' This starts out sounding just like 'Kai', very agressive Late mode, and then comes one of those uber-beautiful Xenakis moments when time stands still and a haunting melody unfolds. AGAIN!! wish tamayo would have recorded it!!

Mosaiques This 'Greatest Hits of the '90s' piece was familiar yet fun to hear in this guise. Please, yes.


Les bacchantes Xenakis's 'opera'??- well, it's 60 minutes with a baritone reciter, women's chorus, and ensemble- I think it's mostly speaking- in English Ibelieve! I could see this being somewhat tiresome- but it should be easy enough to record. Could win a Grammy?!

pye fyp windrup pee (not the right tit;le!!)- the piece for Children's Choir- another beautiful beautiful piece by Xenakis. Haters are not gonna have nada, mm mm mm.

Sea Nymphs The other Late Choral Work, nice echt Xenakis choral piece,- Xenakis does translate well to the chorus.


There are also alternative recordings of some of the controversial Late Works, the most helpful being a much slower 'Kai' than we are used to from the Vandenberg cd. FINALLY!! I'm starting to think Late Xenakis is quite the Masterpiece Era, it's just that some of the pieces ('Kai', 'Plekto', 'Kuilenn') haven't received reference recordings yet. My opinion of Xenakis's Late Music has increased dramatically after this smorgasbord of samples. The, what I believe to be, Arditti premiere of the String Sextet 'Ittidra' is also a very telling foil to the Mode recording.

Anyhow, there it is- now we just need actual recordings.


'Chant de Soleil'- for children's choir, 8 trp., 8 trb., 8 hrn.- 4 percussion... this one I didn't hear, but I can guess that this may very well be in the Xenakis 'beautiful' mode.

End transmission.

[snyprrr]

Jesus showed me he loved me by leading me to xenakis.musicportal.gr where, for the first time ever!, I finally heard samples of 99% of the works I've been clammering to hear! Thank You!

So, just to go through:

Sea-Change This is his last Orchestral Work, and I've been fantasizing what it must sound like, and I was slightly right, but Xenakis really DOES seem to signal 'sea change' because the work is very cleaned up and diaphonous(?)- it's got an expectant atmosphere- and Xenakian melody- that was quite refreshing for his penultimate work. Really sad Tamayo didn't record it. Can't wait to hear the whole thing.

Koianoi This was the other Late Orchestral Work that seemed to have eluded the microphone, but here- and this was the one I had really been whining about- here was an angrier version of 'Dammerschein' (everyone seems to like this one)- plus some of the 'Chorale of the Death of the Twilight of the Gods' brass chorale music which is always a welcome 'common' tonality in Xenakis. 'Koiranoi' has some of 'Roai' and other Late Works, but definitely seems to have its own course. Can't wait to hear this one too!

Pour les baleines(?) The classic short piece for String Orchestra is 4 minutes of Xenakian string textures- which is a wonderful thing! A great amalgam. Again, wish Tamayo would have recorded it. There are some sounds here that I may not have heard before. (and the 'whale' thing- don't worry about that!)

'The Takemitsu Piece' This starts out sounding just like 'Kai', very agressive Late mode, and then comes one of those uber-beautiful Xenakis moments when time stands still and a haunting melody unfolds. AGAIN!! wish tamayo would have recorded it!!

Mosaiques This 'Greatest Hits of the '90s' piece was familiar yet fun to hear in this guise. Please, yes.


Les bacchantes Xenakis's 'opera'??- well, it's 60 minutes with a baritone reciter, women's chorus, and ensemble- I think it's mostly speaking- in English Ibelieve! I could see this being somewhat tiresome- but it should be easy enough to record. Could win a Grammy?!

pye fyp windrup pee (not the right tit;le!!)- the piece for Children's Choir- another beautiful beautiful piece by Xenakis. Haters are not gonna have nada, mm mm mm.

Sea Nymphs The other Late Choral Work, nice echt Xenakis choral piece,- Xenakis does translate well to the chorus.


There are also alternative recordings of some of the controversial Late Works, the most helpful being a much slower 'Kai' than we are used to from the Vandenberg cd. FINALLY!! I'm starting to think Late Xenakis is quite the Masterpiece Era, it's just that some of the pieces ('Kai', 'Plekto', 'Kuilenn') haven't received reference recordings yet. My opinion of Xenakis's Late Music has increased dramatically after this smorgasbord of samples. The, what I believe to be, Arditti premiere of the String Sextet 'Ittidra' is also a very telling foil to the Mode recording.

Anyhow, there it is- now we just need actual recordings.


'Chant de Soleil'- for children's choir, 8 trp., 8 trb., 8 hrn.- 4 percussion... this one I didn't hear, but I can guess that this may very well be in the Xenakis 'beautiful' mode.

End transmission.

Well, I'm excited anyhow!! I hope you all hear 'Sea-Change' some day- I'd almost say it sounds like Stockhausen!?!

[Karl Henning]

Heaven!

[snyprrr]

Heaven!

It always is!


So, I pretty well finally closed up the currect Xenakis Discography. And yes, the CDCDCD kicked in and I HAAAD to get even the cds that I wasn't totally sold on, but, oh well, it's not like anyone's rushing to record the last of the unrecorded output.

We do have some confirmation of three Mode releases this year.

I don't know- I got nothing- I'm just down that I can't USE a New XenakisRrelease to soothe my world weary hurt.


Been listening a lot to 'Kraanerg', should sound great during snow storm!

[Mirror Image]

I recently bought this ~



And have been listening to it this week.

I have this as well, but haven't heard a note from it (yet). What do you think about it so far?

[Mirror Image]

I am not very well versed in his music, but since you asked ...

My feeling is that it is of historical value primarily, and for people who have little else of his, which would describe my collection.  I am up to the third disc and am liking it best.  The vocal work, Nuits did not thrill me, but everything else has been of interest and enjoyable.  I have no way to grade the performances, but as I said, most appear to be early recordings.

Ah, cool. I'll have to check it out.

[snyprrr]

I am not very well versed in his music, but since you asked ...

My feeling is that it is of historical value primarily, and for people who have little else of his, which would describe my collection.  I am up to the third disc and am liking it best.  The vocal work, Nuits did not thrill me, but everything else has been of interest and enjoyable.  I have no way to grade the performances, but as I said, most appear to be early recordings.

Yes, I've collected most all Xenakis, and this came out only lately, with some very rare performances (like the verrry bracing 'Nuits'- the version on Arion is my favorite, gentler- this one certainly was a bit shocking from the first notes!). 'Anaktoria' is also a squalling noisefest for Mozatean Octet, which I'm not so sure you enjoyed, haha?! The version of 'Nomos Alpha' with S. Palm is one of the very best for that work.

I would say that 'Kekrops' on the 4th disc is the most... the moist... it's one of my favorites, the 3rd Xenakis Piano Concerto, a monster at 17minutes, all the best things in Xenakis, power, mystery, awe, viruosity. Tell me what you think. It starts off like some mad Stravinsky-meets-Jaws theme, absolutely delicious up to the entry of the piano.

There may not be much more on the 4th disc you like. I mean, this is just the culling of all the French Xenakis recordings, on Adda and Accord and such, so, it's really a shotgun approach which works best when you also have the RZ Editions 2cd set that's also available on Amazon. 'Historical recordings'- yes, you need both, because that fills in a lot of gaps here, and this set is a bit specialized for the non-Xenakian. I hate it when a prospective gets a cd from a Composer they don't like, and then don't pursue farther further. I would have held off on this one until later.

Do you have the Timpani Box? Number One Purchase. The EMI set is another set of essential old recordings. The Mode 'Percussion Works' is massive and satisfying. 'Kraanerg' is massive and exhausting.

Perhaps the Mode Complete Piano with Aki Takahashi? Complete Cello Works with Arne Deforce?  The new Mode 'Ensemble Music 3' is spectacular, with crucial pieces. The other Aki album of 'Piano Works' (Mode).

That's my list, somewhat in order! Also String Music with either the Arditti or JACK. There, that should keep one busy for a little while. Put away this Box for a while, or just listen to the pieces you like- wait till you hear the first piece on disc 4, 'Charisma'- if you don't like Xenakis, this is the piece I never liked until recently- let's see what you think, haha!

[snyprrr]

yES, THE xENAKIS dISCOGRAPHY IS NOW in order (sorryZ) , SO don't let me hear anyone getting a Xenakis disc they don't like. We only try to steer you to the PROPER discs so that you won't get the wrong idea, or be prematurely turned off. The Tamayo Box is Number One. No discussion there. Then, we've discussed furthering. Don't worry, no one will probably go to the lengths I have, so don't be a smart-aleck and get the cds we haven't approved for beginners! Much damage can be done with the wrong performance or piece! Xenakis CAn be dangerous!

[Karl Henning]

Testify, dude!

[Mirror Image]

I still think Hiketides is one of my favorite Xenakis works. The very end is hauntingly beautiful.

[ibanezmonster]

The Tamayo Box is Number One.

Yeah, great place to start.